Energy is matter...
- Tero
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Energy is matter...
...or not. Most atoms are happy to stay as the same element for billions of years.
Let's back up a bit. Chemistry lesson.
On these message boards, we are all a bit too Einsteinian. Matter is energy. Matter is just empty space. Those are the ideas being thrown around. Besides the Goldylocks "just right" universe where God created all the physics parameters to be just right.
No. None of that. We live on a planet where most of the atoms are fixed. Carbons remain carbons. All the carbon containing molecules in you are made of carbons that were once part of plants and animals. And once were CO2.
Atoms have mass. They may be "empty" inside, but you can't squash two atoms together any more than you can squash two baseballs, other than a tiny dent at the surface. So much for empty inside.
Molecules have fixed structure. Your DNA contains deoxyribose. All the bonds of those ribose sugars are fixed, pretty much as long as you live. Or till they are repaired. The nucleic acid base part has heterocycles. Sometimes they degrade, but there are repair enzymes that fix them.
All the energy we normally deal with (not nuclear) comes from chemical reactions. Reactions give off heat, but the ATOMS ARE NEVER DESTROYED, only the bonds are broken. ATP breaks down to ADP and phosphate. Photosynthesis uses sun light as an energy source, but it is still a chemical, not a nuclear reaction.
All this is very real to me. And I can measure it.
Mind and matter, you can argue about which is real forever. I am just going to assume matter is. Life is easier that way. I have faith in my molecules.
(It was just a cut and paste from a blog, I dug it up from 3 years back. Don't even remember what forum I posted it in.)
Let's back up a bit. Chemistry lesson.
On these message boards, we are all a bit too Einsteinian. Matter is energy. Matter is just empty space. Those are the ideas being thrown around. Besides the Goldylocks "just right" universe where God created all the physics parameters to be just right.
No. None of that. We live on a planet where most of the atoms are fixed. Carbons remain carbons. All the carbon containing molecules in you are made of carbons that were once part of plants and animals. And once were CO2.
Atoms have mass. They may be "empty" inside, but you can't squash two atoms together any more than you can squash two baseballs, other than a tiny dent at the surface. So much for empty inside.
Molecules have fixed structure. Your DNA contains deoxyribose. All the bonds of those ribose sugars are fixed, pretty much as long as you live. Or till they are repaired. The nucleic acid base part has heterocycles. Sometimes they degrade, but there are repair enzymes that fix them.
All the energy we normally deal with (not nuclear) comes from chemical reactions. Reactions give off heat, but the ATOMS ARE NEVER DESTROYED, only the bonds are broken. ATP breaks down to ADP and phosphate. Photosynthesis uses sun light as an energy source, but it is still a chemical, not a nuclear reaction.
All this is very real to me. And I can measure it.
Mind and matter, you can argue about which is real forever. I am just going to assume matter is. Life is easier that way. I have faith in my molecules.
(It was just a cut and paste from a blog, I dug it up from 3 years back. Don't even remember what forum I posted it in.)
- Xamonas Chegwé
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Re: Energy is matter...
All very true... here. Things are a little more fluid in stars and other hot-spots. But we don't live in stars, so treating matter as pretty much immutable is a fair approximation. 

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Salman Rushdie
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House MD
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Paco
Yes, yes. But first I need to show you this venomous fish!
Calilasseia
I think we should do whatever Pawiz wants.
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Re: Energy is matter...
You only percieve this through your neuronal net and have no idea about reality outside the human skull. 

nxnxm,cm,m,fvmf,vndfnm,nm,f,dvm,v v vmfm,vvm,d,dd vv sm,mvd,fmf,fn ,v fvfm,
- FBM
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Re: Energy is matter...
You seem very certain of this.Crumple wrote:You only percieve this through your neuronal net and have no idea about reality outside the human skull.

"A philosopher is a blind man in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there. A theologian is the man who finds it." ~ H. L. Mencken
"We ain't a sharp species. We kill each other over arguments about what happens when you die, then fail to see the fucking irony in that."
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism while the wolf remains of a different opinion."
"We ain't a sharp species. We kill each other over arguments about what happens when you die, then fail to see the fucking irony in that."
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism while the wolf remains of a different opinion."
- Xamonas Chegwé
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Re: Energy is matter...
You will be too - come the dollar-collapse!FBM wrote:You seem very certain of this.Crumple wrote:You only percieve this through your neuronal net and have no idea about reality outside the human skull.

A book is a version of the world. If you do not like it, ignore it; or offer your own version in return.
Salman Rushdie
You talk to God, you're religious. God talks to you, you're psychotic.
House MD
Who needs a meaning anyway, I'd settle anyday for a very fine view.
Sandy Denny
This is the wrong forum for bluffing
Paco
Yes, yes. But first I need to show you this venomous fish!
Calilasseia
I think we should do whatever Pawiz wants.
Twoflower
Bella squats momentarily then waddles on still peeing, like a horse
Millefleur
Salman Rushdie
You talk to God, you're religious. God talks to you, you're psychotic.
House MD
Who needs a meaning anyway, I'd settle anyday for a very fine view.
Sandy Denny
This is the wrong forum for bluffing

Paco
Yes, yes. But first I need to show you this venomous fish!
Calilasseia
I think we should do whatever Pawiz wants.
Twoflower
Bella squats momentarily then waddles on still peeing, like a horse
Millefleur
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Re: Energy is matter...
Money isn't nothing but desire mixed with hope and regret. That's a terrible thing to do yourself - suicide by money.Xamonas Chegwé wrote:You will be too - come the dollar-collapse!FBM wrote:You seem very certain of this.Crumple wrote:You only percieve this through your neuronal net and have no idea about reality outside the human skull.

nxnxm,cm,m,fvmf,vndfnm,nm,f,dvm,v v vmfm,vvm,d,dd vv sm,mvd,fmf,fn ,v fvfm,
- FBM
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Re: Energy is matter...
My pay is in KRW. 

"A philosopher is a blind man in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there. A theologian is the man who finds it." ~ H. L. Mencken
"We ain't a sharp species. We kill each other over arguments about what happens when you die, then fail to see the fucking irony in that."
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism while the wolf remains of a different opinion."
"We ain't a sharp species. We kill each other over arguments about what happens when you die, then fail to see the fucking irony in that."
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism while the wolf remains of a different opinion."
- FBM
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Re: Energy is matter...
If you consider only terrestrial matter and only in the human time span, OK. But most of the matter in the universe is in the form of stars, where atoms are being made anew all the time, eh? That's where the stuff that we are came from...Tero wrote:...or not. Most atoms are happy to stay as the same element for billions of years...

"A philosopher is a blind man in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there. A theologian is the man who finds it." ~ H. L. Mencken
"We ain't a sharp species. We kill each other over arguments about what happens when you die, then fail to see the fucking irony in that."
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism while the wolf remains of a different opinion."
"We ain't a sharp species. We kill each other over arguments about what happens when you die, then fail to see the fucking irony in that."
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism while the wolf remains of a different opinion."
- JimC
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Re: Energy is matter...
The atoms are, but their constituent bits, mainly in the form of protons and electrons (and bound neutrons) are just indulging in an orgy of partner swapping, without themselves being made new at all. The mass defect that allows energy release in fusion events is a cosmic sleight of hand, involving the binding energy within a nucleus...FBM wrote:If you consider only terrestrial matter and only in the human time span, OK. But most of the matter in the universe is in the form of stars, where atoms are being made anew all the time, eh? That's where the stuff that we are came from...Tero wrote:...or not. Most atoms are happy to stay as the same element for billions of years...
Nurse, where the fuck's my cardigan?
And my gin!
And my gin!
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Re: Energy is matter...
Nothing is made or destroyed. Things appear new by re-arrangement.JimC wrote:The atoms are, but their constituent bits, mainly in the form of protons and electrons (and bound neutrons) are just indulging in an orgy of partner swapping, without themselves being made new at all. The mass defect that allows energy release in fusion events is a cosmic sleight of hand, involving the binding energy within a nucleus...FBM wrote:If you consider only terrestrial matter and only in the human time span, OK. But most of the matter in the universe is in the form of stars, where atoms are being made anew all the time, eh? That's where the stuff that we are came from...Tero wrote:...or not. Most atoms are happy to stay as the same element for billions of years...

nxnxm,cm,m,fvmf,vndfnm,nm,f,dvm,v v vmfm,vvm,d,dd vv sm,mvd,fmf,fn ,v fvfm,
- FBM
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Re: Energy is matter...
At the temperature of a star, yes, probably, but not so much from neutron stars, singularities and the like, where itsy bits get squished hard enough to combine with other itsy bits. And then there is virutual particle creation from vacuum energy, but that's just splitting hairs, really.JimC wrote:The atoms are, but their constituent bits, mainly in the form of protons and electrons (and bound neutrons) are just indulging in an orgy of partner swapping, without themselves being made new at all. The mass defect that allows energy release in fusion events is a cosmic sleight of hand, involving the binding energy within a nucleus...FBM wrote:If you consider only terrestrial matter and only in the human time span, OK. But most of the matter in the universe is in the form of stars, where atoms are being made anew all the time, eh? That's where the stuff that we are came from...Tero wrote:...or not. Most atoms are happy to stay as the same element for billions of years...
As XC said, "But we don't live in stars, so treating matter as pretty much immutable is a fair approximation."
"A philosopher is a blind man in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there. A theologian is the man who finds it." ~ H. L. Mencken
"We ain't a sharp species. We kill each other over arguments about what happens when you die, then fail to see the fucking irony in that."
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism while the wolf remains of a different opinion."
"We ain't a sharp species. We kill each other over arguments about what happens when you die, then fail to see the fucking irony in that."
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism while the wolf remains of a different opinion."
- mistermack
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Re: Energy is matter...
I thought it was the other way around. Matter is energy.
Just because it gets stuck in a repetitive cycle, (matter) it doesn't stop being energy imho.
And there is an awful lot of dark energy out there. And apparently an anti-particle for every particle, which can return all matter to free energy.
And a lot of black holes which are cracking matter back into energy.
So just because a lot of energy is fixed in matter now, it could be unfixed in as little as 20 billion years.
Or not.
.
Just because it gets stuck in a repetitive cycle, (matter) it doesn't stop being energy imho.
And there is an awful lot of dark energy out there. And apparently an anti-particle for every particle, which can return all matter to free energy.
And a lot of black holes which are cracking matter back into energy.
So just because a lot of energy is fixed in matter now, it could be unfixed in as little as 20 billion years.
Or not.
.
While there is a market for shit, there will be assholes to supply it.
- Tero
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Re: Energy is matter...
Well, sure there is cool stuff going on in the solar system even, but these people jump from no knowledge to the famous equation in one step. The cool stuff, positrons and all:


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