Mold in homes

[MiM]

Groper, can you explain this, if those treatments are as safe and harmless as you claim?

[Blind groper]

Explain what?

[MiM]

That nothing grows in the area where run off water from that treated electricity pole runs. The obvious explanation is that poison has leached out of it and killed the stuff that normally grows on that cliff, isn't it

[JimC]

That nothing grows in the area where wash out water from that treated electricity pole runs. The obvious explanation is that poison has leached out of it and killed the stuff that normally grows on that cliff, isn't it

Highly unlikely that a leachate would remain within such a narrow path...

Also, please note frame for passionfruit vine, made of treated pine years ago, covered by vigorous growth and rampant tomatoes immediately in front...

[Blind groper]

MiM

I think what you have called a leachate area is actually a path.

Any pole that permitted so much leaching would result in the sacking of the entire team that treated it. Vacuum/pressure treated timber does not behave like that.

[MiM]

MiM

I think what you have called a leachate area is actually a path.

Any pole that permitted so much leaching would result in the sacking of the entire team that treated it. Vacuum/pressure treated timber does not behave like that.

No path there, not ants not anything. That's 15 m from my summer cottage and on my family's property,, so I have pretty good control over what happens there. And anyway, it starts right at the base of the pole and gets wider down the hill, just as running water is expected to behave. No similar thing to be found from tree trunks, or anything else in the area.

That pole was installed maybe 20 years ago, so no "ancient formula form the sixties" either.

Edit: I am using treated would for docks, fences and other outdoor construction too. I am not claiming that dramatic effects are seen everywhere, just that they do exist.

[MiM]

Here is another picture, where you can see similar streaks of bare cliff, going downhill from the metal rods used to fasten the pole, another likely path for water to run. You can also see that the grass doesn't seem to be affected, only the lichens and such (which, I guess are closer relatives to what those poisons are designed to kill).

Edit: The bare patch of cliff at the back is held clear by us.

[JimC]

Here is another picture, where you can see similar streaks of bare cliff, going downhill from the metal rods used to fasten the pole, another likely path for water to run.

P6261545-web.jpg

If significant amounts of zinc (or other metal) salts were coming from the metal struts...?

[MiM]

Here is another picture, where you can see similar streaks of bare cliff, going downhill from the metal rods used to fasten the pole, another likely path for water to run.

P6261545-web.jpg

If significant amounts of zinc (or other metal) salts were coming from the metal struts...?

Then the streaks coming from the struts would be more prominent than the one coming from the pole, not the other way around?

[JimC]

Were those poles treated with the copper. chrome, arsenic salts that BG mentioned? That's the type of timber preservative he and I are referring to - it usually gives the timber a distinct greenish tinge...

[MiM]

Greenish, yes. At least a couple of articles I found says that CCA was the most common (only?) treatment for poles from the 1950's to 2006, when the use was banned by EU. The Finnish chemical safety authority also warns (and forbids) against use of old poles in any private construction, but especially when they can come in contact with growing foodstuff (like Gropers wines and tomatoes).

[Blind groper]

I would sack your pole supplier.

Either the poles were not treated with CCA (there are other preservatives), or else the fixative was incompetently applied.

Bluntly, that is not how properly treated CCA timber behaves. There is something badly wrong there, if something is leaching out and killing lichens. It would be worth taking a soil sample and doing a quick analysis. If you were American, you could sue the timber treatment company.

[MiM]

I would sack your pole supplier.

Either the poles were not treated with CCA (there are other preservatives), or else the fixative was incompetently applied.

Bluntly, that is not how properly treated CCA timber behaves. There is something badly wrong there, if something is leaching out and killing lichens. It would be worth taking a soil sample and doing a quick analysis. If you were American, you could sue the timber treatment company.

More like the electricity company in that case, as it is their pole. Have to admit that those poles are known to be more heavily treated than any timber that is sold to private customers (that's why it isn't legal to sell them to consumers, either new or used). They want to get maximum time from them in harsh conditions.

But if you google, you will find evidence that the treatment does leak out of the wood. More in some cases than in other. Arsene seems to be the most leaky, and I believe that is the part that is now forbidden in most uses in the EU.

[Tero]

They may use other metals, bit arsenic did not survive past 2004
http://www.healthybuilding.net/arsenic/index.html


http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wood_preservation

[Blind groper]

May be related to the species of timber used for the pole, as well. Some species are more easily treatable. Here in NZ, we use mostly radiata pine, which just loves the CCA salts, and holds onto them like crazy. In Oz, they also treat eucalypt that way, and it is not as successful. Do you know what poles are made of at your place?