Sacrificing children for the Second amendment

[Rum]

From RDF at: http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Richa ... 8798180154

The last link contains a graphic graphic.


"'Children ages 5 to 14 in America are 13 times as likely to be murdered with guns as children in other industrialized countries.' READ links before comments. This from a column today that suggests DOING something to prevent future mayhem.
Contrastingly, Ross Douthat's religious column suggests nothing to prevent mayhem. Provide evidence that links 1 and 3 below are false -- or accurate. Douthat offers no specifics, so there's nothing much to contradict." Sean Faircloth, Dir. of Strategy & Policy. Read more in these three links:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/16/opini ... .html?_r=0

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/16/opini ... cents.html

http://www.artonissues.com/2012/01/sacr ... amendment/

[Ian]

Some thoughts on the 2nd Amendment...

It begins by discussing the need for a "well-regulated militia". It was written at a time when the US had no standing Army and thus relied on its sparse population to form one in time of war, when there was no such thing as a Police Department, when there was an active frontier to the west, and when many people lived a life rural enough to mean that access to a rifle meant access to shooting your next meal.

Because of these factors (especially the last two), it's no surprise that the US developed a gun culture which has yet to diminish. The 2nd Amendment was crucial back when it was written. But unlike all those things listed above, there is one factor that hasn't gone away here in the 21st Century: crime. Because of that, I wouldn't advocate repealing the amendment entirely, just imposing tougher restrictions on what is available for the public, and who in the public can access them.

[Tero]

How do you know, Rum, that there were not 20 gun owners on the same day that saved their own child from rapists and killers, with a gun? If they did not kill the rapist, it would not make the news.

The Swiss make nice guns and rank #4.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_ ... by_country

[cronus]

13 times a very low number is still quite low. I'd rather hope a site like RDF would provide raw data rather than statistical manipulations. Then allow thinking sorts to formulate their own objective opinions rather than being swayed by the dark arts of number. Perhaps that is a hundred years from today however?

[Tero]

Ian has it mostly. Finland has lots of guns per capita as well. The rural folk must have guns for wolves and the neighbor's dogs. You are not allowed to shoot people. In the UK, the police must be about 20 minutes from any citizen that calls them.

The Swiss make nice guns and rank #4.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_ ... by_country

[JacksSmirkingRevenge]

In the UK, the police must be about 20 minutes from any citizen that calls them.

If they can be arsed to turn up at all, that is.

Some time ago here, a guy called and reported theives breaking into his garden shed and was told that no police were available.
A short while later, he called them back and told them not to bother since he had shot them....The police turned up in a matter of minutes.

[Svartalf]

Lovely how the garda protects the citizenry... I wish I could say the French ones are any better, but I can't.

[orpheus]

How do you know, Rum, that there were not 20 gun owners on the same day that saved their own child from rapists and killers, with a gun? If they did not kill the rapist, it would not make the news.

If it were true, the NRA would be trumpeting such statistics from the rooftops.

[Jason]

Here we go again..

1)Yes I approve of stricter gun control, I also think the 2nd amendment is in dire need of serious reformation.

2)Stricter gun control and reformation of the right to bear arms would not have prevented this tragedy.

3)Stricter gun control and reformation of the right to bear arms will not prevent accidental discharges causing deaths (education may decrease them, but people will still be idiots - even smart responsible people are idiots sometimes)

4)Stricter gun control and reformation of the right to bear arms and self-defence laws will reduce gun related deaths.

[Rum]

In the UK, the police must be about 20 minutes from any citizen that calls them.

If they can be arsed to turn up at all, that is.

Some time ago here, a guy called and reported theives breaking into his garden shed and was told that no police were available.
A short while later, he called them back and told them not to bother since he had shot them....The police turned up in a matter of minutes.

Urban myth. Urban myth.

[klr]

In the UK, the police must be about 20 minutes from any citizen that calls them.

If they can be arsed to turn up at all, that is.

Some time ago here, a guy called and reported theives breaking into his garden shed and was told that no police were available.
A short while later, he called them back and told them not to bother since he had shot them....The police turned up in a matter of minutes.

Urban myth. Urban myth.

And it if were true ... a report of breaking and entering* is not nearly as important as a report that someone has just been killed**. I wouldn't have a problem with the apparent priorities of the police in this scenario.

*Not into a house mind you, but a garden shed.
**Possibly in lawful circumstances, but even so, it would demand the immediate attention of the police. This isn't Florida we're talking about ...

[Woodbutcher]

Here we go again..

1)Yes I approve of stricter gun control, I also think the 2nd amendment is in dire need of serious reformation.

2)Stricter gun control and reformation of the right to bear arms would not have prevented this tragedy.

3)Stricter gun control and reformation of the right to bear arms will not prevent accidental discharges causing deaths (education may decrease them, but people will still be idiots - even smart responsible people are idiots sometimes)

4)Stricter gun control and reformation of the right to bear arms and self-defence laws will reduce gun related deaths.

Agree 100%

[Blind groper]

The second amendment is not needed. No other western nation has anything like the second amendment, and they all permit limited ownership of firearms. Anyone who wants a sporting rifle and meets the criteria can get one.

The second amendment does not permit proper gun ownership. What it does is permit improper gun ownership, by people who should never, never be permitted one.

[Svartalf]

So long as scum like the WBC can operate, the 2nd A. will be sorely needed.

[FBM]

Here we go again..

1)Yes I approve of stricter gun control, I also think the 2nd amendment is in dire need of serious reformation.

2)Stricter gun control and reformation of the right to bear arms would not have prevented this tragedy.

3)Stricter gun control and reformation of the right to bear arms will not prevent accidental discharges causing deaths (education may decrease them, but people will still be idiots - even smart responsible people are idiots sometimes)

4)Stricter gun control and reformation of the right to bear arms and self-defence laws will reduce gun related deaths.

Agree 100%

Right on. The way the Second Amendment is worded, that the right to bear arms "shall not be infringed upon" technically makes it very difficult to pass stricter controls that the Supreme Court can declare to be constitutional. We need to amend that clause so that we can require education, training and safe storage as prerequisites to firearm ownership. Not just handguns, either.