The Coronavirus Thread

[rainbow]

According to NL gov one in around two and a half thousand Netherlanders have died from the Covid. Isn't that evidence?

Evidence of what? That people die? Not many in a population of 17,5 million. The presumption being they died from the virus which is obviously not true. Covid attributed to their death in many cases and was not the sole cause. There are no acceptable international definitions. No time definitions either. A person dying two weeks later after testing positive is still a Covid death? In some countries yes. How about all those wonderful numbers from Africa and India.

India has 83 deaths per million people due to Covid.
Africa 39
Netherlands 394
USA 678
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

FFS once again taken a deep draught of the kool-aid. You really lack understanding. Who is collecting the African and Indian data?

Yes, they are.

Who believes the African and Indian data?

They have collected the data, so why wouldn't they believe it? https://covid19.who.int/region/searo/country/in

I will keep commenting with true stories about the UK.

I'm sure you will. What a sad life you must lead.

[Scot Dutchy]

According to NL gov one in around two and a half thousand Netherlanders have died from the Covid. Isn't that evidence?

Evidence of what? That people die? Not many in a population of 17,5 million. The presumption being they died from the virus which is obviously not true. Covid attributed to their death in many cases and was not the sole cause. There are no acceptable international definitions. No time definitions either. A person dying two weeks later after testing positive is still a Covid death? In some countries yes. How about all those wonderful numbers from Africa and India.

You sound like you're claiming that Covid-19 has had no impact on the NL mortality rate. Are you?

Does it matter what the international definitions are if the NL gov have good working definitions of their own? The figures provided by the NL gov put the mortality rate from Covid-19 at around 1 for every 2500 citizens and in the specific context international definitions are neither here nor there. The fact that the NL gov are aligning their data collection with the rest of the EU is something you neglect to acknowledge.

Once again off we go. Dont you think that defining what Covid death is would be a good starting point.
Where is the proof of this so-called alignment.

The reasons to mark if somebody who recently died had also recently tested positive for Covid-19 are, 1) to help track the prevalence of the infection in the population during the epidemic, and 2) to attribute it as a cause of death if/when medics consider it a relevant factor. The UK governments for example require doctors to note Covid on death certificates if somebody tested positive within 28 days of their demise - but whether it was a primary, contributory, or merely a notable factor in their demise is a matter for those whose duty it is to write the certificates.

Yep all nicely defined? Without carrying out a post-mortem on every case you cant say it is a covid death.

Nobody is claiming that all deaths where Covid was noted are deaths in which Covid is the sole or primary cause - probability alone would suggest otherwise - but that is exactly the claim you're arguing against. In this context that makes your response a strawman argument. A strawman argument is a fallacy. A fallacy is an error in reasoning.

No? Just unbelievable. That is exactly what is happening. Stop dancing around.

You deride figures from Africa and India as automatically unreliable and yet you have no basis on which to say whether they're unreliably high or unreliably low. If they're unreliably high, meaning they're lower in actuality, then by comparison the NL is clearly doing poorly. If they're unreliably low, meaning they're actually higher in reality, then it means the virus is more virulent than is being reported, which suggests that the NL gov should be taking stringent steps to reduce the risk of infection at home. But as you will, and indeed cannot, say in what way the African and Indian figures are unreliable, only that they just are because... reasons, then you're not really contributing anything to the discussion other than a little bit of self-satisfied colonial superiority. You might as well call them 'shithole countries' and be done with it.

Both continents are not known for their excellent health care systems or government organisations. What they are well known for is corruption at all levels of society. Plenty just does not have the infrastructure for daily reporting or any reporting and yet the WHO (also partial to a few brown envelopes) publishes these figures as gospel. You dont have to be insulting (but you always are). Lets not fool ourselves when there is money a begging.

[Scot Dutchy]

According to NL gov one in around two and a half thousand Netherlanders have died from the Covid. Isn't that evidence?

Evidence of what? That people die? Not many in a population of 17,5 million. The presumption being they died from the virus which is obviously not true. Covid attributed to their death in many cases and was not the sole cause. There are no acceptable international definitions. No time definitions either. A person dying two weeks later after testing positive is still a Covid death? In some countries yes. How about all those wonderful numbers from Africa and India.

India has 83 deaths per million people due to Covid.
Africa 39
Netherlands 394
USA 678
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

FFS once again taken a deep draught of the kool-aid. You really lack understanding. Who is collecting the African and Indian data?

Yes, they are.

Who believes the African and Indian data?

They have collected the data, so why wouldn't they believe it? https://covid19.who.int/region/searo/country/in

I will keep commenting with true stories about the UK.

I'm sure you will. What a sad life you must lead.

Really fucking amazing. You quote an organisation that has been caught so often with it's hand in the cookie jar it is now considered par for the course. You believe them? Keep drinking that Kool-Aid. That goes for all UN organisations. A big American sow that keeps the milk of corruption flowing.

If you think I am leading a sad life what does say about a person who has to dig up fake news about a country. Pretty pathetic in my books.

[rainbow]

You dont have to be insulting (but you always are).

You've just insulted 2 continents that make up 3/4 of the world's population.

You might come across as a bit racist.

[Scot Dutchy]

You dont have to be insulting (but you always are).

You've just insulted 2 continents that make up 3/4 of the world's population.

You might come across as a bit racist.

Who is insulting? I am the only one being insulted. FFS you are just typical any criticism and out comes the racist card.

Why do they make up 3/4 of the worlds population?

[rainbow]

You dont have to be insulting (but you always are).

You've just insulted 2 continents that make up 3/4 of the world's population.

You might come across as a bit racist.

Who is insulting? I am the only one being insulted. FFS you are just typical any criticism and out comes the racist card.

Yes b'wana, I go back to my mud hut and eat roots.

Why do they make up 3/4 of the worlds population?

Tell us your theory about how the dark skinned people are unable to control their urges, and breed too much.

[Tero]

After opting against lockdown measures throughout the coronavirus pandemic, Sweden is said to be shifting strategies toward the kinds of restrictive measures adopted by most of its neighbors.
Business Insider

[Scot Dutchy]

You dont have to be insulting (but you always are).

You've just insulted 2 continents that make up 3/4 of the world's population.

You might come across as a bit racist.

Who is insulting? I am the only one being insulted. FFS you are just typical any criticism and out comes the racist card.

Yes b'wana, I go back to my mud hut and eat roots.

Why do they make up 3/4 of the worlds population?

Tell us your theory about how the dark skinned people are unable to control their urges, and breed too much.

Making more false claims. You just cant stop. You are the one making the racist remarks.

[Brian Peacock]

According to NL gov one in around two and a half thousand Netherlanders have died from the Covid. Isn't that evidence?

Evidence of what? That people die? Not many in a population of 17,5 million. The presumption being they died from the virus which is obviously not true. Covid attributed to their death in many cases and was not the sole cause. There are no acceptable international definitions. No time definitions either. A person dying two weeks later after testing positive is still a Covid death? In some countries yes. How about all those wonderful numbers from Africa and India.

You sound like you're claiming that Covid-19 has had no impact on the NL mortality rate. Are you?

Does it matter what the international definitions are if the NL gov have good working definitions of their own? The figures provided by the NL gov put the mortality rate from Covid-19 at around 1 for every 2500 citizens and in the specific context international definitions are neither here nor there. The fact that the NL gov are aligning their data collection with the rest of the EU is something you neglect to acknowledge.

Once again off we go. Dont you think that defining what Covid death is would be a good starting point.
Where is the proof of this so-called alignment.

The reasons to mark if somebody who recently died had also recently tested positive for Covid-19 are, 1) to help track the prevalence of the infection in the population during the epidemic, and 2) to attribute it as a cause of death if/when medics consider it a relevant factor. The UK governments for example require doctors to note Covid on death certificates if somebody tested positive within 28 days of their demise - but whether it was a primary, contributory, or merely a notable factor in their demise is a matter for those whose duty it is to write the certificates.

Yep all nicely defined? Without carrying out a post-mortem on every case you cant say it is a covid death.

Nobody is claiming that all deaths where Covid was noted are deaths in which Covid is the sole or primary cause - probability alone would suggest otherwise - but that is exactly the claim you're arguing against. In this context that makes your response a strawman argument. A strawman argument is a fallacy. A fallacy is an error in reasoning.

No? Just unbelievable. That is exactly what is happening. Stop dancing around.

You deride figures from Africa and India as automatically unreliable and yet you have no basis on which to say whether they're unreliably high or unreliably low. If they're unreliably high, meaning they're lower in actuality, then by comparison the NL is clearly doing poorly. If they're unreliably low, meaning they're actually higher in reality, then it means the virus is more virulent than is being reported, which suggests that the NL gov should be taking stringent steps to reduce the risk of infection at home. But as you will, and indeed cannot, say in what way the African and Indian figures are unreliable, only that they just are because... reasons, then you're not really contributing anything to the discussion other than a little bit of self-satisfied colonial superiority. You might as well call them 'shithole countries' and be done with it.

Both continents are not known for their excellent health care systems or government organisations. What they are well known for is corruption at all levels of society. Plenty just does not have the infrastructure for daily reporting or any reporting and yet the WHO (also partial to a few brown envelopes) publishes these figures as gospel. You dont have to be insulting (but you always are). Lets not fool ourselves when there is money a begging.

You often claim m to be personally affronted Scott but you rarely explain what you're actually annoyed at. And that leaves the impression that you just find being disagreed with insulting.

It also stops you from answering questions about what you've actually posted.

[JimC]

The misattribution goes both ways. No doubt that in some reported covid deaths, the patient had such serious medical issues that they were heading for death in any case, covid being the straw that broke the camel's back. However, there have also been reports that the deaths of many, particularly the elderly, may have been covid related but no testing was done, so they weren't counted as covid fatalities...

[pErvinalia]

When we look at excess deaths (fairy data), we see that it's highly likely that Covid deaths are being under reported.

[Brian Peacock]

Indeed. And young and otherwise healthy people have caught the infection and died as well.

The notion that extra deaths since Feb-Mar were somehow inevitable fatalities simply brought forward by Covid completely avoids the issue, obfuscates it in fact, not to mention that it isn't supported by what we should expect to see if it was true, that is: a subsequent significant slump in the mortality rate.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanc ... 0/fulltext

[Hermit]

When we look at excess deaths (fairy data), we see that it's highly likely that Covid deaths are being under reported.

With the exception of Belgium, this seems to be the case.



Netherlands:



Thorough discussion of excess mortality rates here. (Somewhat dated) excess mortality statistics here.

[laklak]

Tell us your theory about how the dark skinned people are unable to control their urges, and breed too much.

Well, the Mozambican girls at the Happy Valley Casino down in Ezulweni could get a bit frisky, for the right price. Not that I know anything about it, of course, being a happily married man, but you hear things.

[pErvinalia]

What's going on in France? Case numbers are exploding.