The Coronavirus Thread

[Scot Dutchy]

You have an easy task then as there is none.

[Sean Hayden]

It's a single data point.

But how many fall into that category or similar? That we dont know but they all fall into Covid 19 deaths. Take myself I have lung fibrosis. Only 40% are actually functioning. If I was reinfected and died it would be recorded as a Covid 19 death when in fact it is a fibrosis death as I only have four years left. This is a very grey area but we have no idea how big it is.

It would be recorded with both. It is here anyway.

[Sean Hayden]

Having recorded the multiple causes your gray area could then be defined with a SQL query. It could here anyway, it's probably even more reliable there. --Dutch data entry being far superior

[Brian Peacock]

It's a single data point.

But how many fall into that category or similar? That we dont know but they all fall into Covid 19 deaths. Take myself I have lung fibrosis. Only 40% are actually functioning. If I was reinfected and died it would be recorded as a Covid 19 death when in fact it is a fibrosis death as I only have four years left. This is a very grey area but we have no idea how big it is.

Nonsense. Your fibrosis would be considered a comorbidity in terms of your hypothetical Covid infection - as indeed your Covid-19 would be considered a comorbidity in relation to your fibrosis. The clue is in the 'co-' of 'comorbidity' - meaning 'jointly' or 'together with'.

In medicine, comorbidity is the presence of one or more additional conditions often co-occurring (that is, concomitant or concurrent with) with a primary condition. Comorbidity describes the effect of all other conditions an individual patient might have other than the primary condition of interest, and can be physiological or psychological. In the context of mental health, comorbidity often refers to disorders that are often coexistent with each other, such as depression and anxiety disorders.

-- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comorbidity

Comorbidities are those conditions or diseases that have a negative impact on the outcomes or other conditions or diseases. I can understand you feeling frustrated if/when your fibrosis is not been taken seriously, particularly while everyone's in a flap about the global pandemic, but just because you place more importance or significance on one factor than another that doesn't mean that medical ethics/practice and public health policy would, or indeed should, put one or other of the conditions aside if you were unfortunate enough to catch the 'Rona.

[rainbow]

You have an easy task then as there is none.

Perhaps the rate of increase will not be so bad when the Dutch finally work out that wearing masks actually works.

[Scot Dutchy]

You are a cracked record. They are not compulsory. There is still no evidence. You are still taking the kool-aid.
Well done. You will be repeating it again tomorrow I take it? Childish minds and all that.

[Brian Peacock]

According to NL gov one in around two and a half thousand Netherlanders have died from the Covid. Isn't that evidence?

[Scot Dutchy]

According to NL gov one in around two and a half thousand Netherlanders have died from the Covid. Isn't that evidence?

Evidence of what? That people die? Not many in a population of 17,5 million. The presumption being they died from the virus which is obviously not true. Covid attributed to their death in many cases and was not the sole cause. There are no acceptable international definitions. No time definitions either. A person dying two weeks later after testing positive is still a Covid death? In some countries yes. How about all those wonderful numbers from Africa and India.

[rainbow]

You are a cracked record. They are not compulsory. There is still no evidence. You are still taking the kool-aid.
Well done. You will be repeating it again tomorrow I take it?

As long as you keep up your obsession with bashing the UK at every opportunity.

Childish minds and all that.

[rainbow]

According to NL gov one in around two and a half thousand Netherlanders have died from the Covid. Isn't that evidence?

Evidence of what? That people die? Not many in a population of 17,5 million. The presumption being they died from the virus which is obviously not true. Covid attributed to their death in many cases and was not the sole cause. There are no acceptable international definitions. No time definitions either. A person dying two weeks later after testing positive is still a Covid death? In some countries yes. How about all those wonderful numbers from Africa and India.

India has 83 deaths per million people due to Covid.
Africa 39
Netherlands 394
USA 678
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

[Svartalf]

If all data is meaningless, then we all might as well be hedonistic nihilists...

who says we shouldn't anyway?

[pErvinalia]

Yeah!

[Scot Dutchy]

According to NL gov one in around two and a half thousand Netherlanders have died from the Covid. Isn't that evidence?

Evidence of what? That people die? Not many in a population of 17,5 million. The presumption being they died from the virus which is obviously not true. Covid attributed to their death in many cases and was not the sole cause. There are no acceptable international definitions. No time definitions either. A person dying two weeks later after testing positive is still a Covid death? In some countries yes. How about all those wonderful numbers from Africa and India.

India has 83 deaths per million people due to Covid.
Africa 39
Netherlands 394
USA 678
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

FFS once again taken a deep draught of the kool-aid. You really lack understanding. Who is collecting the African and Indian data? Who believes the African and Indian data? You seem not to be able to understand the implications of my comments on the collected data. Keep drinking the Kool-Aid you seem addicted to it.

BTW I will keep commenting with true stories about the UK. You can keep up your childishness with fake news of the Netherlands. You dont obviously understand the language anyway contrary to what you claim.

[Hermit]

According to NL gov one in around two and a half thousand Netherlanders have died from the Covid. Isn't that evidence?

Evidence of what? That people die? Not many in a population of 17,5 million. The presumption being they died from the virus which is obviously not true. Covid attributed to their death in many cases and was not the sole cause. There are no acceptable international definitions. No time definitions either. A person dying two weeks later after testing positive is still a Covid death? In some countries yes. How about all those wonderful numbers from Africa and India.

India has 83 deaths per million people due to Covid.
Africa 39
Netherlands 394
USA 678
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

FFS once again taken a deep draught of the kool-aid. You really lack understanding. Who is collecting the African and Indian data? Who believes the African and Indian data? You seem not to be able to understand the implications of my comments on the collected data.

Where is your empirical evidence that African and Indian data have no bearing on reality? What are you actually implying?

[Brian Peacock]

According to NL gov one in around two and a half thousand Netherlanders have died from the Covid. Isn't that evidence?

Evidence of what? That people die? Not many in a population of 17,5 million. The presumption being they died from the virus which is obviously not true. Covid attributed to their death in many cases and was not the sole cause. There are no acceptable international definitions. No time definitions either. A person dying two weeks later after testing positive is still a Covid death? In some countries yes. How about all those wonderful numbers from Africa and India.

You sound like you're claiming that Covid-19 has had no impact on the NL mortality rate. Are you?

Does it matter what the international definitions are if the NL gov have good working definitions of their own? The figures provided by the NL gov put the mortality rate from Covid-19 at around 1 for every 2500 citizens and in the specific context international definitions are neither here nor there. The fact that the NL gov are aligning their data collection with the rest of the EU is something you neglect to acknowledge.

The reasons to mark if somebody who recently died had also recently tested positive for Covid-19 are, 1) to help track the prevalence of the infection in the population during the epidemic, and 2) to attribute it as a cause of death if/when medics consider it a relevant factor. The UK governments for example require doctors to note Covid on death certificates if somebody tested positive within 28 days of their demise - but whether it was a primary, contributory, or merely a notable factor in their demise is a matter for those whose duty it is to write the certificates.

Nobody is claiming that all deaths where Covid was noted are deaths in which Covid is the sole or primary cause - probability alone would suggest otherwise - but that is exactly the claim you're arguing against. In this context that makes your response a strawman argument. A strawman argument is a fallacy. A fallacy is an error in reasoning.

You deride figures from Africa and India as automatically unreliable and yet you have no basis on which to say whether they're unreliably high or unreliably low. If they're unreliably high, meaning they're lower in actuality, then by comparison the NL is clearly doing poorly. If they're unreliably low, meaning they're actually higher in reality, then it means the virus is more virulent than is being reported, which suggests that the NL gov should be taking stringent steps to reduce the risk of infection at home. But as you will, and indeed cannot, say in what way the African and Indian figures are unreliable, only that they just are because... reasons, then you're not really contributing anything to the discussion other than a little bit of self-satisfied colonial superiority. You might as well call them 'shithole countries' and be done with it.