The Zionist consensus among US Jews has collapsed. Something new is emerging
Shaul Magid
... We find ourselves at a moment where the compatibility of “liberalism” and “Zionism” feels increasingly untenable. How can a state that privileges its Jewish citizens while so egregiously devaluing the lives of the Palestinians under its control ever be called liberal? Basic principles of liberalism that include equality and the protection of individual rights for all do not cohere with present-day Israel even on a generous reading. The permanent occupation, to say nothing of the destruction of Gaza, has undermined any plausible claim to Israel as a “liberal” country...
Palestine v Israel.
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Re: Palestine v Israel.
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: Palestine v Israel.
a state that has no structure allowing for the marriages of non jews is by definition a theocracy, not a liberal state
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Re: Palestine v Israel.
Noticed quite a strong sentiment on social media that doesn't condemn Hamas' attacks on Oct 7. But instead strongly supports it. Essentially, they have a right to resist the oppressor any way they can. What are your thoughts?
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Re: Palestine v Israel.
Middle east doing its thing. As it as for millenia now. Average joe with a memory like a gold fish saying who the bad guys are based on this weeks news. Not surprising really, news media love a bit of a cavort going on that way as clickbait. Nothing will change until the entire region is safely under the rising seas. And out of anyone's dominion.
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Re: Palestine v Israel.
You've got this one on high rotation, Crumps.
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Re: Palestine v Israel.
Targeting civilians, women, children, the elderly etc is wrong. Resisting a military occupation in your own lands is right.pErvinalia wrote:Noticed quite a strong sentiment on social media that doesn't condemn Hamas' attacks on Oct 7. But instead strongly supports it. Essentially, they have a right to resist the oppressor any way they can. What are your thoughts?
Rationalia relies on voluntary donations. There is no obligation of course, but if you value this place and want to see it continue please consider making a small donation towards the forum's running costs.
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"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."
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"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Details on how to do that can be found here.
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"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."
Frank Zappa
"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: Palestine v Israel.
Is there a point at which the citizens in a democracy become complicate in the state's crimes?
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"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
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Re: Palestine v Israel.
Not children, obviously
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"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
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"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.
"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
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Re: Palestine v Israel.
Peace in the middle east? that's what you call a lull whilst both sides renew their stockpiles and some further mindless atrocity is planned by each side
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Re: Palestine v Israel.
I’m surprised by you, friend of the red horse. Peace in Europe! 

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Re: Palestine v Israel.
Nobody realistic really expects peace to break out and last after so long - I guess, maybe Trumps Las Vegas in the Middle East will prove me wrong. Harry Harrison Stainless Steel Rat had a similar solution....in one of his stories...time will tell I guess
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Re: Palestine v Israel.
The problem isn’t your pessimism, but that you think peace is unlikely because of something unique in the makeup of the people involved. Any observer with a similarly broad view could make the same claim regarding Europeans. You bastids have only ever been at war! War is literally your history.
Of course that’s true of most, isn’t it? The ancient histories wrestled with every aspect of humanity through the lens of war…
Of course that’s true of most, isn’t it? The ancient histories wrestled with every aspect of humanity through the lens of war…
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Re: Palestine v Israel.
I don’t think so, probably for several reasons.pErvinalia wrote: ↑Fri Oct 10, 2025 6:14 amIs there a point at which the citizens in a democracy become complicate in the state's crimes?
—no unified point of view
—no direct means to craft policy
—no access to privileged information used by authorities
—active campaigns by authorities to distort reality put citizens at further disadvantage
—limited capacity for voluntary involvement at any level
…and many more I’m sure.
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Re: Palestine v Israel.
The minature equivalent of world war two just took out all the aggressive ones on the losing side. So maybe peace will last longer, even a lot longer. Just like it did in Northern Ireland after that helicopter crash took off the head of the aggressive English military. And then peace broke out that lasted there although it is beginning to show signs of fraying now.
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Re: Palestine v Israel.
That was almost optimistic of you Crump. You've changed!
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"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.
"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.
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