Trump and ethnic cleansing

[Seabass]

I'm interested in portraying the US accurately.

~1/2 of yearly population growth due to immigration isn't attempted ethnic cleansing.

And clearly, Republicans are trying to get that number down. Hence Trumpism, the alt-right, the attacks on TPS, MAVNI, decreasing legal immigration/refugees, etc...

More than 1/2 of Americans think diversity is a good thing, and by the look of things they damn well better!

Lol @ "more than half". "More than half" isn't very comforting. If I'm standing in a crowded room in which "more than half" the room does not want to kill me, then I have serious cause for concern.

[Sean Hayden]

More than 1/2 think diversity is a good thing. Seabass's take away: just because more than half doesn't want to kill me doesn't mean I don't have something to worry about.

--//--

This is a good example of why I feel it is important to counter your rhetoric with facts about life in the US.

[Sean Hayden]

The Republican views may surprise some:

[Cunt]

Yeah, it is likely growing along with the population in general. But the majority of Americans still keep to their own race for the most part.

'American' isn't a race. It's about the only country that bases its identity on other than race (Japan is Japanese, Isreal is Isreali)

They don't 'keep to their own race' as much as they keep to their own class. Poor people of any colour can be exploited in shit work environments. Wealthy people of all colours avoid such exploitation.

Yes, we are also divided by class. But Americans report spending most of their time with their own race.

--//--

Anecdotally, the schools I work in are incredibly diverse. My neighbors represent the diversity. The change is obviously occurring.

Oh, there are many divisions, but the cash ones are the hardest to break. Daryl Davis does a great job reaching across the racial divide, in the most extreme and dramatic way. He wouldn't get as much of an audience if he did so across the cash divides.

But this isn't about self isolation, such as many homogenous societies practice (S. Korea, Japan, Australia, N. Korea) but about ethnic cleansing.

I still think if I were being born a random race, I would be best off in Canada or the US. Even with all the evidence provided here about ethnic cleansing in the US.

If born, then arriving illegally in a country, I still think those are the best two chances. If I didn't know what 'ethnic' I would be seen as, I mean.

[Seabass]

More than 1/2 think diversity is a good thing. Seabass's take away: just because more than half doesn't want to kill me doesn't mean I don't have something to worry about.

--//--

This is a good example of why I feel it is important to counter your rhetoric with facts about life in the US.

More than half the country being okay with diversity didn't help this guy:





or this guy:

Body of man with diabetes deported to Iraq returned home to US for family burial
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/body-si ... d=65282165

etc, etc...

[Sean Hayden]

No, it helped bring up the number of Republicans who support allowing refugees fleeing violence into the country, as well as making a path for those here illegally to become legal, and this even while Trump is president.

[Sean Hayden]

That of course was the important part of your comments here, which now take a backseat to your willingness to use horrific crimes to mask a lack of substance.

I don't listen when the right does it, and I'm not giving you that win either.

[Seabass]

That of course was the important part of your comments here, which now take a backseat to your willingness to use horrific crimes to mask a lack of substance.

I don't listen when the right does it, and I'm not giving you that win either.

I provide a bunch of articles, and you ignore it and write it off as gish gallop. I make an argument and you complain that I'm not providing context. I provide data from ADL and SPLC that show that white nationalist organizing and violence are on the rise, and you tell me it's irrelevant. I provide a couple of examples of how racist attitudes and policies affect real human beings, and not just lines on a graph, and you tell me that I'm masking a lack of substance. Well, what the fuck?

And what the hell is your point, anyway? Racism overall is down compared to the 50s, so there's nothing to worry about? Are you unable to fathom why non-white Americans and Americans who have immigrants in their family might be a bit concerned about what they're seeing in their country at the moment?

[Sean Hayden]

I provide a bunch of articles, and you ignore it and write it off as gish gallop.

Yes, you did dump a bunch of articles. I've gone over why I consider this a gish gallop. I can't go through all of it, and in every instance there is room for a lot of disagreement. For example, in the case of the deportations of veterans, this has been an ongoing problem that was exacerbated by ICE's lack of familiarity with processes i.e. dreaded farking bureaucracy. In the case of deporting legal immigrants in general, Republicans clearly don't support that.

I provide data from ADL and SPLC that show that white nationalist organizing and violence are on the rise, and you tell me it's irrelevant.

A rise in white nationalist extremists is not irrelevant. It doesn't support your contention that the US is perilously close to becoming Nazi Germany or taking up ethnic cleansing.

And what the hell is your point, anyway? Racism overall is down compared to the 50s, so there's nothing to worry about? Are you unable to fathom why non-white Americans and Americans who have immigrants in their family might be a bit concerned about what they're seeing in their country at the moment?

My point is that your portrayal of the US is wildly inaccurate.

I wish you'd stop trying to get me to accept a version of reality on the basis that having imagined it to be so, you're afraid.

[Cunt]

If you had to be born an ethnic minority, which countries would you choose?

Besides Canada, obviously...

[pErvinalia]

But this isn't about self isolation, such as many homogenous societies practice (S. Korea, Japan, Australia, N. Korea) but about ethnic cleansing.

Australia isn't homogenous. We are probably the most ethnically diverse country in the world. What are you on about?

[Sean Hayden]

I'm not comfortable with that question Cunt.

The US has a lot to answer for regarding its treatment of blacks and other minorities in general. The systemic racism in this country has made, and continues to make life hard for a significant number of them. It is not enough in my opinion to recognize sound principles and ideals. In fact, it has always been that hypocrisy, the difference between our ideals and the reality on the ground which has fueled the activism for change.

But the reality today is vastly different. We are making progress.

--//--

Spain, on the coast, it's beautiful there.

[Seabass]

I provide a bunch of articles, and you ignore it and write it off as gish gallop.

Yes, you did dump a bunch of articles. I've gone over why I consider this a gish gallop. I can't go through all of it, and in every instance there is room for a lot of disagreement. For example, in the case of the deportations of veterans, this has been an ongoing problem that was exacerbated by ICE's lack of familiarity with processes i.e. dreaded farking bureaucracy. In the case of deporting legal immigrants in general, Republicans clearly don't support that.

What they support is greatly reducing who can stay. What do you think all this public charge business is about, for example?

Trump’s ‘Public Charge’ Rule Would Radically Change Legal Immigration
https://www.americanprogress.org/issues ... migration/

I provide data from ADL and SPLC that show that white nationalist organizing and violence are on the rise, and you tell me it's irrelevant.

A rise in white nationalist extremists is not irrelevant. It doesn't support your contention that the US is perilously close to becoming Nazi Germany or taking up ethnic cleansing.

Oh, stop it. I've never said that we're surely going to become Nazi Germany tomorrow. My concern is that something similar may be taking root here. My concern is that we could possibly be moving in a similar direction. There are enough parallels to be concerned. I'm not the only one who feels this way. Why do you think Trump is so much more hated by minorities than white Americans?

And what the hell is your point, anyway? Racism overall is down compared to the 50s, so there's nothing to worry about? Are you unable to fathom why non-white Americans and Americans who have immigrants in their family might be a bit concerned about what they're seeing in their country at the moment?

My point is that your portrayal of the US is wildly inaccurate.

I wish you'd stop trying to get me to accept a version of reality on the basis that having imagined it to be so, you're afraid.

I wish you'd stop trying to get me to accept a comforting version of reality that exists only for those who are lucky enough to have been born a member of the majority ethnic group.

[Sean Hayden]

I wish you'd stop trying to get me to accept a comforting version of reality that exists only for those who are lucky enough to have been born a member of the majority ethnic group.

Bullshit.

What's your reality Seabass? What do you do in California? My immigrant family members are engineers, lawyers, mechanics, yadda, yadda.

[Seabass]

I wish you'd stop trying to get me to accept a comforting version of reality that exists only for those who are lucky enough to have been born a member of the majority ethnic group.

Bullshit.

What's your reality Seabass? What do you do in California? My immigrant family members are engineers, lawyers, mechanics, yadda, yadda.

Irrelevant. Jews in nascent Nazi Germany were doing just fine. Until they weren't. And even if your immigrant family members are doing fine, there are a lot of immigrant family members who aren't.

And who comes after Trump? I shudder to think. I didn't think they could do worse than Bush...