Ted Cuz Ineligible to Be President of the US?

[Coito ergo sum]

It seems there is an eligibility question surrounding Ted Cruz. http://www.politico.com/story/2013/01/c ... 85873.html

He was born in Canada to an American mother and a Cuban father.

That sounds on its face to make him not a "natural born citizen," however, he was apparently a "citizen by birth" (must've been a US citizen at birth, I guess) and as such he would be eligible.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/arc ... us/275469/

I can get the rule that if he was born abroad to a US citizen parent who "met the US residency requirement,"then he would be eligible -- but, I don't get how his mom met that residency requirement. She was a Canadian resident. So, to me, Cruz probably should have been a Canadian citizen at birth, and NOT a US citizen.

He may be an illegal alien, having inappropriately claimed citizenship by birth, and perhaps he should be deported to Canada.

[Clinton Huxley]

Oh no!

[pErvinalia]

I thought this was a thread about cuzzy bros (Pacific Islanders)...

[Coito ergo sum]

At the time of Ted Cruz's birth, the US did not recognize dual citizenship. And, to be US citizen born abroad, I think the rule was that the US Citizen parent had to be a US resident. So, if Cruz's mom was a Canadian resident at the time then shouldn't Cruz have been a Canadian citizen? And, if he was a Canadian citizen by birth, he could not be a US citizen.

So, the big question for me was whether Cruz was born in Canada because mom was temporarily in Canada but remained a US resident, or whether his mom was a Canadian resident at the time.

If we examine the reverse -- a Canadian mom who comes to the US temporarily and gives birth, she could register the child as Canadian. But, if she came to the US and lived here as a resident and gave birth, the child would be a US citizen and not a Canadian citizen (unless Canada provided for dual citizenship)/

It's weird - but, I am leaning towards the view that Cruz is ineligible.

[Collector1337]

If his mom is an American citizen, then so is he even if he's born abroad.

[Coito ergo sum]

If his mom is an American citizen, then so is he even if he's born abroad.

Where do you get that?

An American citizen married to a Frenchman and living or "residing" in France gives birth to French citizen.

The test, I thought, was whether the American citizen was abroad temporarily, like on a vacation or temporary visa or something, as opposed to "residing" in the foreign country. Like, when you have a Mexican citizen living in the US who gives birth to a...what? Mexican citizen? No -- a natural born American citizen.

I'd be interested in any law you have on your side.

[Collector1337]

I'm not really sure if I have a "side."

I'm just stating the facts as I know them.

http://travel.state.gov/law/family_issu ... h_593.html

http://www.legalzoom.com/marriage-divor ... r-child-us

"Although the "citizenship by birth" rules have been complex, the February 2001 Child Citizenship Act (CCA) simplified the process. Now, a child who is under the age of 18, was born outside the U.S., and has at least one U.S. citizen parent automatically acquires U.S. citizenship upon entry into the country as an immigrant. No further paperwork is necessary. The parent may request a Certificate of Citizenship and U.S. Passport for the child if proof of the baby's American-ness is desired."

[Coito ergo sum]

I'm not really sure if I have a "side."

I'm just stating the facts as I know them.

http://travel.state.gov/law/family_issu ... h_593.html

http://www.legalzoom.com/marriage-divor ... r-child-us

"Although the "citizenship by birth" rules have been complex, the February 2001 Child Citizenship Act (CCA) simplified the process. Now, a child who is under the age of 18, was born outside the U.S., and has at least one U.S. citizen parent automatically acquires U.S. citizenship upon entry into the country as an immigrant. No further paperwork is necessary. The parent may request a Certificate of Citizenship and U.S. Passport for the child if proof of the baby's American-ness is desired."

Ted Cruz was born well before 2001, so the law that would apply would be the law applicable at the time.

That's a weird law and leaves a lot of questions in my mind - it seems to allow a person who was born in say, Chechnya to a US citizen parent to move to the US 17 years later, never having been in the US and acquire citizenship just by entering into the US as an immigrant. Seems weird. That aside, whether a person is a citizen is one thing -- the question of whether one is a Natural Born Citizen is another. All natural born citizens are citizens, but not all citizens are natural born.

I don't have a "side" either. But, it seems to me that it's a legitimate question. The guy was born in Canada. How did he acquire US citizenship?

Wikipedia says he was born in Calgary Alberta, but it does not say when he entered the US for the first time. I think the key points would be whether he ever acquired Canadian citizenship, and whether his parents were only temporarily in Canada as opposed to "residing" there.

For anyone who questioned Obama's legitimacy and challenged his natural born status because he may have been born outside the US, this Ted Cruz thing will be a big test of their character. Remember, even if Obama was born in Indonesia or something, his mother was a US Citizen. So, if "my mom was a US citizen, so I'm a US citizen" is the only test, then why all the hubbub about whether Obama was born in Hawaii or not? It simply wouldn't matter, since he had a US citizen mom.

The point in the Obama fiasco was that if he could be proved not to have been born in the US, then that would make him ineligible. If that's correct, then the mere fact of having a citizen mom is not enough.

[Warren Dew]

At the time of Ted Cruz's birth, the US did not recognize dual citizenship. And, to be US citizen born abroad, I think the rule was that the US Citizen parent had to be a US resident.

The rule had no such requirement. This is just the CNN version of the Obama "birther" movement.

[klr]

I feel as if the the typo in the the thread title should be corrected, but that it's funnier if it isn't

[Coito ergo sum]

At the time of Ted Cruz's birth, the US did not recognize dual citizenship. And, to be US citizen born abroad, I think the rule was that the US Citizen parent had to be a US resident.

The rule had no such requirement. This is just the CNN version of the Obama "birther" movement.

Then what was the birther argument?

How would Obama being born in Indonesia to a US citizen mother have rendered him ineligible?

[Warren Dew]

That's a weird law and leaves a lot of questions in my mind - it seems to allow a person who was born in say, Chechnya to a US citizen parent to move to the US 17 years later, never having been in the US and acquire citizenship just by entering into the US as an immigrant. Seems weird. That aside, whether a person is a citizen is one thing -- the question of whether one is a Natural Born Citizen is another. All natural born citizens are citizens, but not all citizens are natural born.

He's not "acquiring" citizenship - he was a citizen at birth due to at least one of his parents having been a citizen at his birth. He just doesn't happen to have gotten his passport until 17, which is not unusual for U.S. citizens.

This isn't something that started in 2001; my family was residing overseas when my brother was born in 1961 and he was on a U.S. passport by the time we moved back in 1962. You may consider it weird, but that's just a matter of opinion. I don't see any problem with U.S. citizens living overseas. McCain was born outside the United States too, and no one questioned his right to run in 2008.

"Natural born citizen" may not have been explicitly interpreted by the Supreme Court, but the general legal interpretation is "citizen at birth".

[Warren Dew]

At the time of Ted Cruz's birth, the US did not recognize dual citizenship. And, to be US citizen born abroad, I think the rule was that the US Citizen parent had to be a US resident.

The rule had no such requirement. This is just the CNN version of the Obama "birther" movement.

Then what was the birther argument?

How would Obama being born in Indonesia to a US citizen mother have rendered him ineligible?

The same nonexistent way being born in Canada would have rendered Cruz ineligible.

The point is, both the birther argument and CNN's new birther argument are invalid.

[Coito ergo sum]

At the time of Ted Cruz's birth, the US did not recognize dual citizenship. And, to be US citizen born abroad, I think the rule was that the US Citizen parent had to be a US resident.

The rule had no such requirement. This is just the CNN version of the Obama "birther" movement.

Well, there are some difficulties too -- one, the only place in the law where the words "natural born citizen" are found is in the constitution, which does not define the term. The federal statutes define who acquires citizens and when, but does not state who is a "natural born citizen."

Under federal statute, though --

Since 1790, there have been two prerequisites for transmitting U.S. citizenship to
children born abroad:
(1) At least one natural parent must have been a U.S. citizen when the child
was born. The only exception is for a posthumous child.
(2) The U.S. citizen parent(s) must have resided or been physically present in
the United States for the time required by the law in effect when the child
was born.

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/86757.pdf

It has never been determined definitively by a court whether a person who
acquired U.S. citizenship by birth abroad to U.S. citizens is a natural-born
citizen within the meaning of Article II of the Constitution and, therefore,
eligible for the Presidency.

In any event, the fact that someone is a natural
born citizen pursuant to a statute does not necessarily imply that he or she is
such a citizen for Constitutional purposes.

I find it hard to believe, say, that a US citizen woman who lives in Canada for, say, 20 years, and gives birth to a child who then lives in Canada for 36 years --- that said child could then be a natural born citizen for constitutional purposes. That could conceivably allow people who have never set foot in the US to run for President, if their mom was a US citizen and popped the kid out abroad.

[Coito ergo sum]

At the time of Ted Cruz's birth, the US did not recognize dual citizenship. And, to be US citizen born abroad, I think the rule was that the US Citizen parent had to be a US resident.

The rule had no such requirement. This is just the CNN version of the Obama "birther" movement.

Then what was the birther argument?

How would Obama being born in Indonesia to a US citizen mother have rendered him ineligible?

The same nonexistent way being born in Canada would have rendered Cruz ineligible.

The point is, both the birther argument and CNN's new birther argument are invalid.

Well, the only way any birthers are going to get away with defending Cruz's eligibility is to torpedo their own.

Also, I don't think the argument regarding Cruz is all that clear... I think there is an eligibility question for people born abroad. It certainly is not settled in the constitution and it is not settled in the courts, and even the State department acknowledges that.