Happy Pearl Harbor Day!

[Coito ergo sum]

http://news.yahoo.com/pearl-harbor-atta ... 16486.html

In memory of The Day That Will Live in Infamy.












On the flip side, the infamy for the Pearl Harbor attack lies completely on the side of the United States, which brought the attack on itself by egging on the Japanese in a conspiracy to create an event that could draw the United States into World War 2, a war that Franklin D. Roosevelt "wanted" to fight (presumably because he was sure there would be no existential threat to the U.S., and the war would most certainly be won by the U.S. and its allies).

[Clinton Huxley]

I thought Blighty tricked Japan into entering the war so that the US would come in (late) on the side of the Allies and hence Churchill could sleep safely at night?

[Gawdzilla Sama]

FDR wanted to fight the Nazis. The Pacific War was a distraction from that. The US did respect the Japanese military.

[Clinton Huxley]

FDR wanted to fight the Nazis.

Yeah, once we'd softened them up, with minor help from the Roosians.

[amused]

Hitler never played Risk when he was a kid, otherwise he'd have never invaded Russia.

[Drewish]

[Clinton Huxley]

Almost bought All Hell Let Loose by Max Hastings yesterday. His basic premise is that the US and British armies were a bit rubbish and that the main contribution of "the west" came from the USN, the RN and American industrial capacity. Even this was a bit of a sideshow as it took a great land power, Russia, to defeat another great land power, Germany.

Controversial! Sells books.

[Coito ergo sum]

I thought Blighty tricked Japan into entering the war so that the US would come in (late) on the side of the Allies and hence Churchill could sleep safely at night?

That might have been the case.

This "late" nonsense, however, assumes that the U.S. had some obligation to enter the war prior to being seriously attacked. I mean, remember the chants a few years ago about how "Iraq never attacked us...", well neither had Japan until December 7. Would you have suggested we preemptively attack them? Or, was there some reason why the US should have rushed to the rescue of the British, to save their Asian colonial holdings from being taken over by another invader?

Ah, yes, we came in "late" to defend the British colonial Empire. How horrible of us...

[Clinton Huxley]

Well, one might have hoped that the denizens of the "shining city on the hill" might be a little more forward in stepping up to defeat a monstrous evil but hey.....

[Coito ergo sum]

FDR wanted to fight the Nazis. The Pacific War was a distraction from that. The US did respect the Japanese military.

I've always found the conspiracy theories about how FDR purposefully got us into the war belied by the mere fact of our severe state of weakness and lack of readiness to fight anybody in 1941. We had a lot of gearing up to do. That Japanese general had it right when he said the US was a sleeping giant. Most people focus on the "giant" part, but in 1940 and 1941, the operative term was "sleeping."

[Schneibster]

http://news.yahoo.com/pearl-harbor-atta ... 16486.html

In memory of The Day That Will Live in Infamy.












On the flip side, the infamy for the Pearl Harbor attack lies completely on the side of the United States, which brought the attack on itself by egging on the Japanese in a conspiracy to create an event that could draw the United States into World War 2, a war that Franklin D. Roosevelt "wanted" to fight (presumably because he was sure there would be no existential threat to the U.S., and the war would most certainly be won by the U.S. and its allies).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_Harb ... acy_theory

http://cliopolitical.blogspot.com/2006/ ... iracy.html

Plenty more around. It's typical of you that you'd promote a conspiracy theory about Roosevelt.

[Coito ergo sum]

Well, one might have hoped that the denizens of the "shining city on the hill" might be a little more forward in stepping up to defeat a monstrous evil but hey.....

The context of the start of World War 2, viewed from what was known in 1939, 1940 and 1941, is quite different from what was known in 1945 and 1946.

Moreover, when Britain conquered most of the South Pacific and a lot of East and South Asia, and incorporated into its Empire, which it held until the Japanese started making inroads into it, that was "good?" And, the Japanese colonials getting into a dispute and fight with British colonials over colonies held at gunpoint by one or the other is something the US ought to felt a moral motivation to involve itself?

And, in 1939, the squabbles between European colonial powers was the moral obligation of the United States to involve itself? (prior, of course, to there being any sort of Holocaust, which was actually committed for the most part after the US became involved.

[klr]

Damn, this anniversary snuck up on me.

Which when you think of it, is very appropriate.

Conspiracy theories?

[Coito ergo sum]

Almost bought All Hell Let Loose by Max Hastings yesterday. His basic premise is that the US and British armies were a bit rubbish and that the main contribution of "the west" came from the USN, the RN and American industrial capacity. Even this was a bit of a sideshow as it took a great land power, Russia, to defeat another great land power, Germany.

Controversial! Sells books.

It actually says something about the sheer strength of the German army, that it took the UK, the US, and Russia, and others like Canada, Australia, etc., combined, with the assistance of various resistances in various European countries, to defeat Germany. Even as late as June, 1944, victory for the allies was not certain.

[klr]

Almost bought All Hell Let Loose by Max Hastings yesterday. His basic premise is that the US and British armies were a bit rubbish and that the main contribution of "the west" came from the USN, the RN and American industrial capacity. Even this was a bit of a sideshow as it took a great land power, Russia, to defeat another great land power, Germany.

Controversial! Sells books.

It actually says something about the sheer strength of the German army, that it took the UK, the US, and Russia, and others like Canada, Australia, etc., combined, with the assistance of various resistances in various European countries, to defeat Germany. Even as late as June, 1944, victory for the allies was not certain.

The Germans did not have the same lines of communication* to manage and defend as the Allies, or indeed the Japs. That's why the convoy/shipping wars were so important. Trying to disrupt or destroy something (the Germans) is a al lot easier than building or creating (the Allies).

*By which is meant physical communication - transport.