Areligious.

[Animavore]

Like most of you here I would define myself as atheist but, I find that many people in Ireland are what I would call areligious. In other words they don't care a whit about religion. Not a bit. I know people that when I start about the harms or absurdities of religion roll their eyes the same way they would at someone talking about god. They just don't want to hear it. I guess this means they are de facto atheists but, at the same time, since these same people tend to roll their eyes at any relevant or important topic like global warming or earth's future it also means they have (or may not have) any beliefs of their own. I mean none at all. And if it's not an eye-roll it's a 'tut'. I actually respect religious people more than these type of people. They just have no cares or social opinions. They merely exist. It can be really frustrating talking to them to. They like to just cut you off. I always try listen to people and engage in whet they're saying even if I've no interest (like talking about rugby). How some people live their lives with such a lack of caring is beyond me?
Does anyone catch what I'm saying? Sorry I'm not a great writer I hope I've articulated that well enough.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

"It's an outrage the first time you hear it. After that it's old news." I think the Irish are bit tired of religious issues.

[Xamonas Chegwé]

I know exactly what you mean. And it is by no means limited to Ireland. I have friends with no religious views whatsoever that give me a "here he goes again" look whenever I edge close to the subject of religion. They treat my atheism as something so obvious it shouldn't need spelling out and cannot imagine why I would want to bother arguing with theists, fundie or otherwise. "What does it matter to you what they believe?" and "Leave them to it if it makes them happy." are the usual responses.

They bring me in mind of the people that never bother voting, despite the fact that less than 100 years ago they wouldn't have been able to, they fail to see it as a chance to have their say or make any kind of difference and merely say, "Why bother? They're all the same anyway."

What annoys me still further is that you cannot even dismiss them as 'lumpen proletariat' or any other such disparaging term for the uneducated and unintelligent. A lot of these "don't care - won't care - can't make me care" types are well-educated, intelligent people in well-paid, responsible jobs with families and mortgages. They just take all that as a right, not even considering for a moment that not so long ago they would have been working at age 9, with no schooling save that doled out at Sunday School, no representation in government, no vote, no bank willing to lend them the money to buy a house, no hope for change and no future.

I cannot imagine what it must be like to be so uncaring, uninvolved and asinine.

[AshtonBlack]

Avi, I hear what you are saying. But, how can we turn people on to questioning when all their lives they've been told not to question....
By their schools, by their parents, by the media?

What are we to do?

[Animavore]

Avi, I hear what you are saying. But, how can we turn people on to questioning when all their lives they've been told not to question....
By their schools, by their parents, by the media?

What are we to do?

Take advantage of them

[klr]

Like most of you here I would define myself as atheist but, I find that many people in Ireland are what I would call areligious. In other words they don't care a whit about religion. Not a bit. I know people that when I start about the harms or absurdities of religion roll their eyes the same way they would at someone talking about god. They just don't want to hear it. I guess this means they are de facto atheists but, at the same time, since these same people tend to roll their eyes at any relevant or important topic like global warming or earth's future it also means they have (or may not have) any beliefs of their own. I mean none at all. And if it's not an eye-roll it's a 'tut'. I actually respect religious people more than these type of people. They just have no cares or social opinions. They merely exist. It can be really frustrating talking to them to. They like to just cut you off. I always try listen to people and engage in whet they're saying even if I've no interest (like talking about rugby). How some people live their lives with such a lack of caring is beyond me?
Does anyone catch what I'm saying? Sorry I'm not a great writer I hope I've articulated that well enough.

I've been saying pretty much the same thing since day one back at RDF, but I think you've put it better. The level of Christian fundamentalism found in parts of the US is almost unknown here, certainly amongst Catholics (most of whom are seriously lapsed, or lukewarm at best/worst). As I've always said: Most Irish people don't turn away from/ignore religion because of they've pondered deep philosophical issues. They just don't care, and/or the antics of the Catholic Church pissed them off so much. Yet they still pay lip-service to religion in ways that get up my nose at times.

This is one of the reasons why I only speak about religion myself amongst family and friends when the need arises, or if there's an opportunity to get a subtle dig in somewhere.

[Animavore]

What annoys me still further is that you cannot even dismiss them as 'lumpen proletariat' or any other such disparaging term for the uneducated and unintelligent. A lot of these "don't care - won't care - can't make me care" types are well-educated, intelligent people in well-paid, responsible jobs with families and mortgages.

Of course. You're dead right. And I should've mentioned that initially.
If someone isn't the sharpest tool in the box you can't blame them for not understanding any basic religious or philosophical concepts. I wouldn't even raise such issues with them.

[JOZeldenrust]

Haha! Look at you, atheist crusaders.

[Xamonas Chegwé]

Haha! Look at you, atheist crusaders.

Who's a crusader? I just get very depressed by people that have no interest in anything beyond the narrow confines of staid normalcy.

People that consider the best art to be that which looks most 'realistic'.
People whose musical taste runs to whatever is in the charts.
People that have no interest in religion but have their children christened, get married in church and have a religious funeral 'because that's doing it properly'.
People that have no interest in politics, never bother to vote, and neither question the way that things are nor seek to change it in even the smallest way.
People that will allow any kind of injustice or atrocity as long as it doesn't occur in their backyard.
The kind of people, in short, that stood by and watched Hitler turn Germany into a killing machine. Not through fear, not through collusion, but simply because they didn't really care that much one way or another.

Fuck me. I'm beginning to feel like Ayn Rand!

[charlou]

Haha! Look at you, atheist crusaders.

Hello, JOZ. You're looking very mischievous with that glint in your eye and your tongue in your cheek ...

[FBM]

I vaguely recall a philosophy professor once mentioning that the word 'moron' was used by the Greeks to refer to a person who was uninterested in politics and current affairs. Could have been 'idiot', but I think 'moron':

In modern Greek
α) μωρός: stupid, foolish [moros]
β) μωρία: folly, stupidity [moria]
γ) μωρό: baby [moro]
δ) μωρολογία: nonsense, idle talk [morologia]
ε) μωραίνω: stupefy, drive mad [moreno]
στ) ιδίωμα: idiom [idioma]
ζ) ιδιωτεύω: retire into private life [idiotevo]
η) ιδιώτης: private individual, civilian [idiotis]
θ) ιδιωτικός: private, personal [idiotikos]
ι) ιδιόχρηστος: used by the owner himself [idohristos]

More: http://ewonago.blogspot.com/2008/06/mor ... idiot.html

"μωρός from μή ὁρᾷν (to do not see), in a wider sense to do not see what is convenient, also somebody who does not want to care about what is convenient."

(I translate that as: to conveniently not see what one doesn't care about, or to not care about anything that is inconvenient, conveniently ignore the unpleasant)

source:http://www.ellopos.net/elpenor/koinonia ... PIC_ID=476

And, yes, you can take this post as an indication of how bored I am... ...wait, or how boring I am... Take your pick. Anyway, I'm with you on the OP, Animavore.

[charlou]

Before the Law

Before the Law stands a doorkeeper. To this doorkeeper there comes a man from the country and prays for admittance to the Law. But the doorkeeper says that he cannot grant admittance at the moment. The man thinks it over and then asks if he will be allowed in later. "It is possible," says the doorkeeper, "but not at the moment." Since the gate stands open, as usual, and the doorkeeper steps to one side, the man stoops to peer through the gateway into the interior. Observing that, the doorkeeper laughs and says: "If you are so drawn to it, just try to go in despite my veto. But take note: I am powerful. And I am only the least of the doorkeepers. From hall to hall there is one doorkeeper after another, each more powerful than the last. The third doorkeeper is already so terrible that even I cannot bear to look at him." These are difficulties the man from the country has not expected; the Law, he thinks, should surely be accessible at all times and to everyone, but as he now takes a closer look at the doorkeeper in his fur coat, with his big sharp nose and long, thin, black Tartar beard, he decides that it is better to wait until he gets permission to enter. The doorkeeper gives him a stool and lets him sit down at one side of the door. There he sits for days and years. He makes many attempts to be admitted, and wearies the doorkeeper by his importunity. The doorkeeper frequently has little interviews with him, asking him questions about his home and many other things, but the questions are put indifferently, as great lords put them, and always finish with the statement that he cannot be let in yet. The man, who has furnished himself with many things for his journey, sacrifices all he has, however valuable, to bribe the doorkeeper. The doorkeeper accepts everything, but always with the remark: "I am ony taking it to keep you from thinking you have omitted anything." During these many years the man fixes his attention almost continuously on the doorkeeper. He forgets the other doorkeepers, and this first one seems to him the sole obstacle preventing access to the Law. He curses his bad luck, in his early years boldly and loudly; later, as he grows old, he only grumbles to himself. He becomes childish, and since in his yearlong contemplation of the doorkeeper he has come to know even the fleas in his fur collar, he begs the fleas as well to help him and to change the doorkeeper's mind. At length his eyesight begins to fail, and he does not know whether the world is really darker or whether his eyes are only deceiving him. Yet in his darkness he is now aware of a radiance that streams inextinguishably from the gateway of the Law. Now he has not very long to live. Before he dies, all his experiences in these long years gather themselves in his head to one point, a question he has not yet asked the doorkeeper. He waves him nearer, since he can no longer raise his stiffening body. The doorkeeper has to bend low toward him, for the difference in height between them has altered much to this man's disadvantage. "What do you want to know now?" asks the doorkeeper, "you are insatiable." "Everyone strives to reach the Law," says the man, "so how does it happen that for all these many years no one but myself has ever begged for admittance?" The doorkeeper recognises that the man has reached his end, and, to let his failing senses catch the words, roars in his ear: "No one else could gain admittance here, because this entrance was meant solely for you. I am now going to shut it."

- Franz Kafka

[Animavore]

Oh shit.
I love Franz Kafka but, I have never read that one.
I'm going to a corner now to contemplate this one for a few minutes.

[CP]

I don't care to hear such things either. Yes, bad things happen; yes, blind faith can be dangerous; I know. I don't know or care about the social sciences or politics enough to discuss the details all the damn time. It's like being ranted at by somebody waxing lyrical about how bad cocaine is and listing all these horrible things it's caused; I know, I don't take cocaine, and unless you're here to raise money or otherwise convince me to do something about it I'm not interested in talking about it.

[redunderthebed]

Avi, I hear what you are saying. But, how can we turn people on to questioning when all their lives they've been told not to question....
By their schools, by their parents, by the media?

What are we to do?

*lets marxist out of the cage* It's capitalism keep people stupid ignorant and uninformed and you dont even have to convince them to the capitalist bullshit they just accept it they win by default.I think the grind of everyday life and surviving beats the questioning out of some people and they just don't care they focus on their bubble and thats it probably because they feel helpless if they look on a broader scale however in their bubble they think they can do things.

It reminds me of a slogan WORK! CONSUME! DIE!

Haha! Look at you, atheist crusaders.

Who's a crusader? I just get very depressed by people that have no interest in anything beyond the narrow confines of staid normalcy.

People that consider the best art to be that which looks most 'realistic'.
People whose musical taste runs to whatever is in the charts.
People that have no interest in religion but have their children christened, get married in church and have a religious funeral 'because that's doing it properly'.
People that have no interest in politics, never bother to vote, and neither question the way that things are nor seek to change it in even the smallest way.
People that will allow any kind of injustice or atrocity as long as it doesn't occur in their backyard.
The kind of people, in short, that stood by and watched Hitler turn Germany into a killing machine. Not through fear, not through collusion, but simply because they didn't really care that much one way or another.

Fuck me. I'm beginning to feel like Ayn Rand!

You and me both brotha my mother is the same if it isn't in the realms of her normalcy she really doesn't care.Me going on about politics et al has helped to change a little bit and she is a bit more informed about things but still the apathy runs strong in that one.

People like that are indeed why fucked up things happen evil triumphs when good men do nothing.

Areligious is the best way to describe most Australian's too its considered a private matter and most people will roll their eyes if you talk about religion.