An independent Scotland?

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Re: An independent Scotland?

Post by klr » Sat May 25, 2013 9:44 pm

Rum wrote:In which case I am subsidising their entertainment! I demand a rebate!
You're not the only one. I also pay for those channels, via my cable subscription. In some ways, the Freesat service is better. For example, some programs are blocked on Irish cable channels for "broadcasting rights" reasons, usually relating to sporting events. But if you are in Ireland and using Freesat, there are no such restrictions. And you get all the regional variations of some channels. You also get the likes of Channel 5, which is not available via my cable package.

OK, I'm not sure if missing out on Channel 5 is a good or a bad thing ....
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Re: An independent Scotland?

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Sat May 25, 2013 9:47 pm

ronmcd wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
ronmcd wrote:
Scrumple wrote:I'm a quarter Scottish. Where does that leave me?
A quarter Scottish?
Three quarters pleasant?
I don't understand what you mean.

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Re: An independent Scotland?

Post by ronmcd » Sat May 25, 2013 10:35 pm

mistermack wrote:In N. Ireland, the people who want to stay in the UK are called loyalists.

Why aren't the SNP called the disloyalists?
Why aren't Eurosceptics (a majority of England I believe) called disloyalists too, "disloyal" to a european superstate? The splitters.

I'd say loyalist has emotional & religious connotations, referring more to the monarch than where the seat of political control is. In Scotland, independence is about political decisions being made in Scotland, and not ethnic religious or republican "separatism". Note there was a union of the crowns before a union of the parliaments, its only the political control in parliament that the YES campaign want to restore.

As usual, I'm absolutely sure I'm wasting my time on mistermack comments on this topic, but hey ho, I'm generous with my educational altruism :levi:
mistermack wrote:I still think that Orkney and Shetlands should go for independence. After all, it must be better for Orkney and Shetland matters be decided in Orkney and Shetland, not hundreds of miles away in a Scottish Parliament.
They are very welcome to do so. Polls suggest they don't want independence from Scotland currently however. Democracy.

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Re: An independent Scotland?

Post by mistermack » Sun May 26, 2013 5:25 pm

ronmcd wrote:
mistermack wrote:I still think that Orkney and Shetlands should go for independence. After all, it must be better for Orkney and Shetland matters be decided in Orkney and Shetland, not hundreds of miles away in a Scottish Parliament.
They are very welcome to do so. Polls suggest they don't want independence from Scotland currently however. Democracy .
Polls suggest the Scottish people don't want independence from the UK currently however. Democracy in action : delay the vote to the very last minute, hoping that they'll swallow your lies in the meantime.

Actually, I'd like to hear slimy Alex say that they are very welcome to do so.
I think you'd hear some VERY evasive speak, if he actually answered at all.
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Re: An independent Scotland?

Post by ronmcd » Sun May 26, 2013 6:09 pm

mistermack wrote:
ronmcd wrote:
mistermack wrote:I still think that Orkney and Shetlands should go for independence. After all, it must be better for Orkney and Shetland matters be decided in Orkney and Shetland, not hundreds of miles away in a Scottish Parliament.
They are very welcome to do so. Polls suggest they don't want independence from Scotland currently however. Democracy .
Polls suggest the Scottish people don't want independence from the UK currently however. Democracy in action : delay the vote to the very last minute, hoping that they'll swallow your lies in the meantime.
I'm not sure you realise, you're making my point. The electorate in Scotland voted the SNP into office as a devolved Scottish government, on a manifesto including a referendum. They may well reject independence. That is indeed democracy. Similarly, if someone wants to stand for election in the Orkney or Shetland islands on a manifesto including independence from Scotland, they are entitled to do so. And people can decide.
mistermack wrote:Actually, I'd like to hear slimy Alex say that they are very welcome to do so.
I think you'd hear some VERY evasive speak, if he actually answered at all.
Translation: mistermack will always assume the worst of Alex Salmond. Says a lot more about you than him. I'm not aware Alex Salmond has ever said anything on the topic, although other SNP politicians have said self determination applies to them as much as anyone else. But this is a little like asking if you still beat your wife, it's not a question SNP will ever have had a policy on, as they dont have a policy on Glasgow independence, or Edinburgh independence, or Skye independence. They are all part of Scotland, until someone makes a democratic case for independence and puts it to a referendum.

For which there is no demand.

Good try though mistermack, everyone knows full well that the unionist claims about the islands are all about oil, and making mischief. Shame the islands don't actually agree. Which ridiculous cliche will you trot out next? Salmond as Hitler? Scots as subsidy junkies? That's always a crowd pleaser.

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Re: An independent Scotland?

Post by Rum » Sun May 26, 2013 6:21 pm

The Scottish hate the English so much they will probably vote to stay part of the UK - so they can hate us even more!

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Re: An independent Scotland?

Post by ronmcd » Sun May 26, 2013 6:23 pm

mistermack wrote:Democracy in action : delay the vote to the very last minute, hoping that they'll swallow your lies in the meantime.
what delay?

- Jan 2011: Labour Tories etc insist SNP shouldn't try and hold a referendum quickly, what with the economic crisis.
- 01 May 2011:Alex Salmond says in pre-election debate that any referendum would be in 2nd half of the next Scottish Parliament (ie 2014)
- 05 May 2011 SNP win an unprecedented majority in a proportional system.
- After election Labour Tories etc immediately start demanding SNP hold the referendum asap.

You couldnt make it up.

One of these days a Westminister party will do what the SNP did, and keep to their pre election promises. Maybe...

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Re: An independent Scotland?

Post by ronmcd » Sun May 26, 2013 6:24 pm

Rum wrote:The Scottish hate the English so much they will probably vote to stay part of the UK - so they can hate us even more!
Hate? Nah, a mix of amusement and pity, based on the contributions in this thread.

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Re: An independent Scotland?

Post by mistermack » Sun May 26, 2013 8:40 pm

ronmcd wrote:
You couldnt make it up.
You could and you did.
The opponents of separation of course argued against holding a referendum. That's a perfectly respectable position to take.
Once the SNP, the party that is pushing for separation, and promised a referendum, got elected, it was also perfectly respectable to demand that smarmy Alex put his money where his mouth was, and hold the promised referendum.
He campaigned on that promise.
He is the one that went backwards on his promise, by the absolute maximum that he could. Because he knows that if he held it any sooner, he would definitely lose.

He's gambling on bribing the voters with their own money. But as yet, there's no sign that the Scots are that dumb.
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Re: An independent Scotland?

Post by ronmcd » Sun May 26, 2013 8:44 pm

mistermack wrote:
ronmcd wrote:
You couldnt make it up.
You could and you did.
The opponents of separation of course argued against holding a referendum. That's a perfectly respectable position to take.
Once the SNP, the party that is pushing for separation, and promised a referendum, got elected, it was also perfectly respectable to demand that smarmy Alex put his money where his mouth was, and hold the promised referendum.
He campaigned on that promise.
He is the one that went backwards on his promise, by the absolute maximum that he could. Because he knows that if he held it any sooner, he would definitely lose.

He's gambling on bribing the voters with their own money. But as yet, there's no sign that the Scots are that dumb.
So ... you don't believe that Alex Salmond said in the days before the election (that's before the election) that the referendum would be in the 2nd half of the parliament? As explained in the (Labour supporting) Daily Record article I linked to?

The article written the day after the debate, days before the election?

Just checking.

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Re: An independent Scotland?

Post by ronmcd » Sun May 26, 2013 8:49 pm

Its hilarious. Parties demand SNP DONT hold a referendum, demand they put it off as long as possible.
SNP say 2nd half of parliament if elected (thats 2014)
SNP win, other parties demand it's held immediately.
SNP hold referendum in 2014.

And mistermack says I'm making it up, despite report in newspaper proving it.

Man, I feel for you mistermack, this must hurt. :console:

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Re: An independent Scotland?

Post by Rum » Sun May 26, 2013 9:24 pm

ronmcd wrote:
Rum wrote:The Scottish hate the English so much they will probably vote to stay part of the UK - so they can hate us even more!
Hate? Nah, a mix of amusement and pity, based on the contributions in this thread.
Really? Using your logic fuck you guys, we won! :biggrin:

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Re: An independent Scotland?

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Sun May 26, 2013 9:51 pm

Isle of Skye independence NOW! :cranky:
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Re: An independent Scotland?

Post by ronmcd » Sun May 26, 2013 11:21 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:Isle of Skye independence NOW! :cranky:
Independence for rest of UK from Westminister NOW!

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Re: An independent Scotland?

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Sun May 26, 2013 11:43 pm

Buckinghamistanis demand FREEDOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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