Capitalism, The Best Solution to Poverty

[JimC]

Robber barons have now got dukedoms...

[Svartalf]

what we needs is a good old fashioned peasant revolt and hanging the robber baron from the walls of their own castles

[Brian Peacock]

I'd rather see a managed transition to a mixed economy, where that economy works to benefit society rather than the other way around.

[Scot Dutchy]

I agree. Revolution never works as the revolutionaries always suffer in the end.

[pErvinalia]

It's hard to see an orderly transition happening.

[Scot Dutchy]

I am glad my mortal coil on this planet is not going to be that long.

[Brian Peacock]

It's hard to see an orderly transition happening.

I think the climate emergency offers us a chance to collectively re-evaluate the system which brought about the climate emergency, particularly as it seems incapable of addressing the problems it's created, or even appears hell-bent on avoiding doing anything about it at all.

[pErvinalia]

I think if we have another GFC (which looks possible) there might be a chance to put the stake through neoliberalism's heart. But I would have thought that after one GFC, and virtually nothing changed.

[Scot Dutchy]

A long shot Brian. Until every major country accepts the environmental consequences of present day society. Nothing much will happen. It is not in the interest of capitalism to make changes.

[Brian Peacock]

A long shot Brian. Until every major country accepts the environmental consequences of present day society. Nothing much will happen. It is not in the interest of capitalism to make changes.

Perhaps. But I don't think everyone has to sign up to the project first before it can succeed. Like the suffrage or Labour movements, these things can gather momentum all by themselves. I actually think the ball is rolling already - the number of companies using explicitly pro-environment, pro-social-justice messages in their advertising hints at an underlying social and economic shift. In times of crisis people are more willing to take risks and embrace radical change - but we should remember that this applies to people as well as states and trans-global corporate entities.

[Scot Dutchy]

I hope you are right Brian. I wont be around to judge it.

[Hermit]

A long shot Brian. Until every major country accepts the environmental consequences of present day society. Nothing much will happen. It is not in the interest of capitalism to make changes.

Perhaps. But I don't think everyone has to sign up to the project first before it can succeed. Like the suffrage or Labour movements, these things can gather momentum all by themselves. I actually think the ball is rolling already - the number of companies using explicitly pro-environment, pro-social-justice messages in their advertising hints at an underlying social and economic shift. In times of crisis people are more willing to take risks and embrace radical change - but we should remember that this applies to people as well as states and trans-global corporate entities.

The ball has begun rolling too slowly years ago when insurance companies started factoring in global warming trends in the course of calculating real estate policies. The speed is definitely increasing. Andrew Mackenzie, the CEO of BHP, has just announced a $US400m plan to combat 'indisputable' climate crisis. The amount of money involved is actually laughably small for a company currently capitalised around the US $150 billion mark, but the explicit recognition of anthropogenic global warming by the boss of the world's largest mining company ("Use of emissions-intensive products from the resource industry have contributed significantly to global warming" said the CEO), it is time for those who believe that "climate change alarmists" are simply motivated by feathering their nests or that global warming is a Chinese conspiracy.

[Brian Peacock]

SACRED ECONOMICS with Charles Eisenstein

Sacred Economics traces the history of money from ancient gift economies to modern capitalism, revealing how the money system has contributed to alienation, competition, and scarcity, destroyed community, and necessitated endless growth.

Today, these trends have reached their extreme - but in the wake of their collapse, we may find great opportunity to transition to a more connected, ecological, and sustainable way of being.

Video, 12 mins: https://invidio.us/watch?v=-GoFzU3cRE4

[Brian Peacock]

You know things are broken when liberal economists like Reich are talking about oligarchs...

[pErvinalia]

You're stretching "liberal economist" there. You like stretching things.