The fear of North Korea

[JacksSmirkingRevenge]

Help!

Jack and rEv have been turned into weird militarists!



I'm telling sandinista!

You would have to go some to be as weird and militaristic as Jing Jong Pong...or whatever his fucking name is.

[FBM]

So...NK say they will nuke Tokyo if Japan shoots down any missile they fire at it?
Wtf?
...And are they really stupid enough to name what targets they're going to shoot at first, or is this some ploy?

NK is sounding crazier and crazier every time I read about them. I think this is one situation where I would support some sort of heavy-handed pre-emptive action. It would surely save lives in the long run.

After the USSR's collapse, NK's economy went to shit and people started dying by the droves up there. China was a fall-back. There's no telling how many hundreds of thousands or millions of people have starved to death up there or been put to death for trying to leave. I think it's a repulsive position to be put in, but surely a short, intense war right now would prevent those numbers from starving in the future, and cost fewer lives in the process.

[pErvinalia]

Help!

Jack and rEv have been turned into weird militarists!



I'm telling sandinista!

It's what becomes of all social democrats. We eventually all turn into Stalin.

[cronus]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/13/opini ... .html?_r=0

Bomb North Korea, Before It’s Too Late

SINCE February, the North Korean government has followed one threatening move with another. The spiral began with an underground nuclear test. Then the North declared the armistice that ended the Korean War invalid. The young dictator Kim Jong-un followed with a flurry of threats to attack civilian targets in South Korea, Japan and the United States.

Earlier this week, North Korea closed the Kaesong Industrial Complex, the only facility where citizens from North and South Korea work together. And now the North is openly threatening (and visibly preparing) to fire a mobile-launcher-based Musudan missile with a range that could reach many of the places Mr. Kim has menaced in his public statements. American intelligence agencies believe that North Korea is working to prepare even longer-range delivery systems to carry the nuclear warheads already in its arsenal.

The Korean crisis has now become a strategic threat to America’s core national interests. The best option is to destroy the North Korean missile on the ground before it is launched. The United States should use a precise airstrike to render the missile and its mobile launcher inoperable.

President Obama should state clearly and forthrightly that this is an act of self-defense in response to explicit threats from North Korea and clear evidence of a prepared weapon. He should give the leaders of South Korea, Japan, China and Taiwan advance notice before acting. And he should explain that this is a limited defensive strike on a military target — an operation that poses no threat to civilians — and that America does not intend to bring about regime change. The purpose is to neutralize a clear and present danger. That is all.

If North Korea is left to continue its threatening behavior, it will jeopardize the fragile economies of the region and it will encourage South Korea and Japan to develop their own nuclear weapons — a policy already advocated by hawks in both countries. Most of all, North Korean threats will encourage isolated states across the world to follow suit. The Iranians are certainly watching. If North Korea can use its small nuclear arsenal to blackmail the region with impunity, why shouldn’t the mullahs in Tehran try to do the same?

The United States and its allies in East Asia have a legitimate right to self-defense and they have a deep interest in deterring future threats on this scale.

Thanks to precise satellite reconnaissance, striking the North Korean missile on the ground would be much easier than after it was launched. Since the United States cannot possibly know the missile’s trajectory before a launch, and Mr. Kim has said he is targeting America and its allies, we have reason to believe that civilians face serious danger.

Since a missile on the ground is an obvious and largely undefended target, we can be reasonably sure that a strike would destroy it and preserve regional stability and the safety of our allies. An American pre-emptive strike would also re-establish necessary red lines for North Korea and other countries in similar circumstances.

(continued)

[FBM]

@ Scrump: That nuclear capability shit wasn't leaked accidentally, was it?

[JacksSmirkingRevenge]

So...NK say they will nuke Tokyo if Japan shoots down any missile they fire at it?
Wtf?
...And are they really stupid enough to name what targets they're going to shoot at first, or is this some ploy?

NK is sounding crazier and crazier every time I read about them. I think this is one situation where I would support some sort of heavy-handed pre-emptive action. It would surely save lives in the long run.

After the USSR's collapse, NK's economy went to shit and people started dying by the droves up there. China was a fall-back. There's no telling how many hundreds of thousands or millions of people have starved to death up there or been put to death for trying to leave. I think it's a repulsive position to be put in, but surely a short, intense war right now would prevent those numbers from starving in the future, and cost fewer lives in the process.

Would you say that the armed services personnel were as fanatical as they look, or do you reckon most of them joined to avoid starvation, etc?

[FBM]

So...NK say they will nuke Tokyo if Japan shoots down any missile they fire at it?
Wtf?
...And are they really stupid enough to name what targets they're going to shoot at first, or is this some ploy?

NK is sounding crazier and crazier every time I read about them. I think this is one situation where I would support some sort of heavy-handed pre-emptive action. It would surely save lives in the long run.

After the USSR's collapse, NK's economy went to shit and people started dying by the droves up there. China was a fall-back. There's no telling how many hundreds of thousands or millions of people have starved to death up there or been put to death for trying to leave. I think it's a repulsive position to be put in, but surely a short, intense war right now would prevent those numbers from starving in the future, and cost fewer lives in the process.

Would you say that the armed services personnel were as fanatical as they look, or do you reckon most of them joined to avoid starvation, etc?

I'm thinking Orwell. You truly believe what you truly have to to truly survive. Just my best guess, of course.

[MiM]

So...NK say they will nuke Tokyo if Japan shoots down any missile they fire at it?
Wtf?
...And are they really stupid enough to name what targets they're going to shoot at first, or is this some ploy?

NK is sounding crazier and crazier every time I read about them. I think this is one situation where I would support some sort of heavy-handed pre-emptive action. It would surely save lives in the long run.

After the USSR's collapse, NK's economy went to shit and people started dying by the droves up there. China was a fall-back. There's no telling how many hundreds of thousands or millions of people have starved to death up there or been put to death for trying to leave. I think it's a repulsive position to be put in, but surely a short, intense war right now would prevent those numbers from starving in the future, and cost fewer lives in the process.

You need to think ahead, not to the past, if you attempt anything like that. How will the North Korean people react, if their leadership is annihilated? How can they be integrated in a modern world? What kind of a war would it be? North Korea is nothing like the sand dunes of Irak (historically I know something about defending a foresty country from a superior attacker, The US has intimate knowledge of the difficulties of waging a war in that area). What are the risks of a ground war against DPRK. What can be achieved/lost by air strikes only?

[Tero]

The last period of starvation led to 1 million estimated dead.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

The last period of starvation led to 1 million estimated dead.

NK birth control program.

[FBM]

You need to think ahead, not to the past, if you attempt anything like that. How will the North Korean people react, if their leadership is annihilated? How can they be integrated in a modern world? What kind of a war would it be? North Korea is nothing like the sand dunes of Irak (historically I know something about defending a foresty country from a superior attacker, The US has intimate knowledge of the difficulties of waging a war in that area). What are the risks of a ground war against DPRK. What can be achieved/lost by air strikes only?

Honestly, I can only guess. By that, I mean that I am suspicious of the news I hear from the local press, I'm sure as hell suspicious of the news I hear from CNN and BBC, and I'm sure the FUCK suspicious of whatever comes out of NK. I'm also suspicious of what the local press reports about what "NK defectors" say about life up there. Suspicious = skeptical. These are just reports, IMO. Anecdotes. Verifiable data is lacking, so until such is presented, I'm suspending judgement on the whole tangled mess.

That said, the videos that have been smuggled out of NK are quite convincing...

[Coito ergo sum]

So...NK say they will nuke Tokyo if Japan shoots down any missile they fire at it?
Wtf?
...And are they really stupid enough to name what targets they're going to shoot at first, or is this some ploy?

NK is sounding crazier and crazier every time I read about them. I think this is one situation where I would support some sort of heavy-handed pre-emptive action. It would surely save lives in the long run.

After the USSR's collapse, NK's economy went to shit and people started dying by the droves up there. China was a fall-back. There's no telling how many hundreds of thousands or millions of people have starved to death up there or been put to death for trying to leave. I think it's a repulsive position to be put in, but surely a short, intense war right now would prevent those numbers from starving in the future, and cost fewer lives in the process.

Would you say that the armed services personnel were as fanatical as they look, or do you reckon most of them joined to avoid starvation, etc?

"Join?" They have mandatory conscription for all males, and selective conscription to females. The only way a male won't serve is if he is physically unfit, mentally deficient/unstable, or is considered "socially-politically undesirable" (in which case he'll be dealt with by either being killed or sent to a prison camp).

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Gays?

[JacksSmirkingRevenge]

So...NK say they will nuke Tokyo if Japan shoots down any missile they fire at it?
Wtf?
...And are they really stupid enough to name what targets they're going to shoot at first, or is this some ploy?

NK is sounding crazier and crazier every time I read about them. I think this is one situation where I would support some sort of heavy-handed pre-emptive action. It would surely save lives in the long run.

After the USSR's collapse, NK's economy went to shit and people started dying by the droves up there. China was a fall-back. There's no telling how many hundreds of thousands or millions of people have starved to death up there or been put to death for trying to leave. I think it's a repulsive position to be put in, but surely a short, intense war right now would prevent those numbers from starving in the future, and cost fewer lives in the process.

Would you say that the armed services personnel were as fanatical as they look, or do you reckon most of them joined to avoid starvation, etc?

"Join?" They have mandatory conscription for all males, and selective conscription to females. The only way a male won't serve is if he is physically unfit, mentally deficient/unstable, or is considered "socially-politically undesirable" (in which case he'll be dealt with by either being killed or sent to a prison camp).

Yes, I'd sort of guessed that NK had conscription.
My question was badly worded. What I kind of meant was; "how many are regulars?"
How long is the conscription term, I wonder?

[FBM]

Conscription is anywhere from 5 to 10 years, I hear, but I don't know the particulars about how that is determined. As for degree of fanaticism, I'd imagine that it varies by the individual. But I'm just talking out of my ass, mostly. It's not like I've actually met and interviewed any of them. The defectors' stories are suspect, imo. They're so conditioned to say whatever the higher-ups want to hear, I've little doubt that that influences what they say once they've made it to the South.