Capitalism, The Best Solution to Poverty

[pErvinalia]

I can hear the tinkling of the trickle starting!

[JimC]

That's Donald's golden shower you're hearing...

[rainbow]

That's Capitalism that is.

Capitalism is dead.
It has been replaced by Rent-seeking Corporatism.

The natural outcome of free market capitalism is rent-seeking corporatism. This is capitalism.

Nay.

Capitalism is the antithesis of the free market.
... a common mistake.

[pErvinalia]

You're just agreeing with me. Free market capitalism can never stay "free". It naturally becomes cronyism.

[pErvinalia]

Perhaps you should define capitalism as you are using it. The way I use it - private means of production, profit motive - definitely still applies now.

[JimC]

Is there a difference in emphasis between the terms "capitalism" and "free enterprise", or are they virtually interchangeable?

[pErvinalia]

I think the principle of capitalism is for freer enterprise. But the reality is freer for those enterprises that buy the most political influence.

[JimC]

Yeah, a lot of the spin is about an idealised even playing field for a market economy, where the invisible hand always makes the best product/company win...

However, there is some truth that the competition inherent in the system can drive both efficiency and innovation, at least some of the time. The old state-run monopoly model of the Soviet era became fairly moribund...

[Brian Peacock]

Free enterprise, free markets, economic liberalism, commercialism, industrialism, mercantilism, laissez faire eonomic corporatism, democracy 2.0... whatever you call it, it's the only game in town.

[pErvinalia]

The Chinese economy is the hard one to define. A command economy that is generating stupendous profits.

[Brian Peacock]

The Chinese economy is fully Capitalist, with ownership being solely in the hands of the political elite (or those endorsed by them). A society which sees the need to put bars on the iPhone factory windows, nets in the stairwells, and fences on the roof to prevent live-in employees working 12-hour shifts committing suicide is not one being run along egalitarian or Socialist principles.

Yeah, a lot of the spin is about an idealised even playing field for a market economy, where the invisible hand always makes the best product/company win...

However, there is some truth that the competition inherent in the system can drive both efficiency and innovation, at least some of the time. The old state-run monopoly model of the Soviet era became fairly moribund...

That view on competition is itself an ideal that only makes sense in the context of a Capital-centred social-economic system. We can always image how we can do Capitalism better because we're all embedded in Capitalism, but we also have to acknowledge that while we might think regulation is reasonable or that taxation policy might offer society a way to ameliorate the downsides rampant Capitalists have a different view about a 'better' form of Capitalism. We're not in control of the system, and we know both from history and from our own contemporary experience that Capital accrues socio-economic power, and that this power always tends to run away with itself.

[pErvinalia]

Chinese economy isn't anywhere near fully capitalist. The state owns the vast majority of production, and local industries operate under heavy state protectionism. In addition to this they manipulate their currency to further benefit local industries.

[Hermit]

Free enterprise, free markets, economic liberalism, commercialism, industrialism, mercantilism, laissez faire eonomic corporatism, democracy 2.0... whatever you call it, it's the only game in town.

Also known as the law of the jungle, where bigger businesses either eat up smaller ones or drive them out of the territory. It's a feature advocates of laissez faire capitalism, like Milton Friedman, studiously ignore.

Watching a Youtube episode from "Leno's Garage" a few days ago, I recall him mentioning that in the 1920s there were about 350 car manufacturers in the USA alone. 35 manufacturers (if you pretend that conglomerates like the Volkswagen owned various marques are not controlled by Volkswagen's board of directors) sold 17.4 million cars in the USA in 2018. 10.5 million of those were sold by the top 10 manufacturers, only three of which are US based.

[Brian Peacock]

Chinese economy isn't anywhere near fully capitalist. The state owns the vast majority of production, and local industries operate under heavy state protectionism. In addition to this they manipulate their currency to further benefit local industries.

You'll come round. The Chinese state is the political elite, not the people. The people don't get a say. The Chinese state may have said that it was setting out to co-opt Capitalism in the service of Socialism, but that state-centred account of China's last 40 years of economic reform doesn't match the reality. What China has done through that single-party system is design and implement a jump straight into über-Capitalism. If you want to see the logical conclusion of laissez faire free market economic theory look no further than China: authoritarian Capitalism.

[Hermit]

Chinese economy isn't anywhere near fully capitalist. The state owns the vast majority of production, and local industries operate under heavy state protectionism. In addition to this they manipulate their currency to further benefit local industries.

You heard of the expression "state capitalism", yes?