What if Vegans are Actually Right?

[macdoc]

Quoting the entire of MY source, is not providing a equally supported counter argument.
It's just a waste of space in the thread and lazy.

[JimC]

Some processing of food may bring about undesirable chemical changes, or may reduce the amounts of some vitamins (by heating, for example). However, processing in general does not automatically reduce the food value. I suspect what is more important in terms of health is things like the amounts of saturated fats, salt and sugar, the presence or absence of various preservatives and artificial colours and flavourings, and the level of fibre, minerals and vitamins, irrespective of the processing that has occurred.

[rasetsu]

Quoting the entire of MY source, is not providing a equally supported counter argument.
It's just a waste of space in the thread and lazy.

It is when your own source undermines your point. Are you really this stupid?

[Brian Peacock]

Brian - I only responded to your lack of citations to support your regularly available "opinion".
Playing "victim" won't cut it....support your "proclamations" and I'll stop sniping....no high horse required.

Did you read the article? "There's a lot of 'plant-based || meat alternative' UPFs out there too" hardly seems like a controversial thing to say, particularly in the context of the Vegan thread, so perhaps you'll explain why it seems to have knotted your knickers so tightly. If you're not inclined to explain, then perhaps you'd like to actually talk about UPFs instead?

[pErvinalia]

Sausage wraslin’!

[macdoc]

Once more Brian .... it had nothing to do with the content of the article but that fact you do not supply originally sourced by you references to counter what you took as the anti-meat bias in the article.

"There's a lot of 'plant-based || meat alternative' UPFs out there too"

You ignore the chart showing the differences between the UPF treated meat and the UPF alternatives and the explanation of why UPF treatment in plant based alternatives in some cases enhances the health benefits of the particular product in question.

[Brian Peacock]

Once more Brian .... it had nothing to do with the content of the article but that fact you do not supply originally sourced by you references to counter what you took as the anti-meat bias in the article.

"There's a lot of 'plant-based || meat alternative' UPFs out there too"

You ignore the chart showing the differences between the UPF treated meat and the UPF alternatives and the explanation of why UPF treatment in plant based alternatives in some cases enhances the health benefits of the particular product in question.

The article isn't anti-meat, it's highlighting possible health impacts of ultra-processed foods. A lot of nominally veg*n products would also fall within that classification. I didn't say "all" or 'every" or "most" veg*n products are ultra-processed foods, I only noted that "a lot" are - merely pointing out that veg*n processed foods are not exempt from the health concerns mentioned. You appear to be arguing against that. Why?

There is a common misconception, often pushed by the same commercial food processing sector that makes animal-based products, that replacing animal-based foodstuffs with these types of processed non-animal products is an easy way to successfully 'go veg*n', and that idea, that veg*nism simply means 'buying different stuff', is often combined with non-animal ultra-processed foods being marketed as 'healthy alternatives' to meat or cheese or whatever. Veg*n ultra-processed foods are low in fibre and inherently high in sugar, salt and saturated and unsaturated fats. By arguing against the fact that ultra-processed veg*n and plant-based foods are still ultra-processed foods you appear to be supporting misleading marketing claims that the veg*n option at the fast food counter or supermarket freezer is always the inherently healthier option. Why?

[rainbow]

By arguing against the fact that ultra-processed veg*n and plant-based foods are still ultra-processed foods you appear to be supporting misleading marketing claims that the veg*n option at the fast food counter or supermarket freezer is always the inherently healthier option. Why?

This is a bit of hand-waving though, since what is "ultra-processing"?

Surely all processes are not equally bad. What are the additives? Are there chemical conversions of ingredients, and if so do these make the food healthier, or not?
Hydrogenation of vegetable oils isn't necessarily a good thing, but removal of patulin from apple juice by activated carbon adsorbtion is beneficial.
...just an example.

[Brian Peacock]

By arguing against the fact that ultra-processed veg*n and plant-based foods are still ultra-processed foods you appear to be supporting misleading marketing claims that the veg*n option at the fast food counter or supermarket freezer is always the inherently healthier option. Why?

This is a bit of hand-waving though, since what is "ultra-processing"?

It was a specific response to a particular post.

... since what is "ultra-processing"? Surely all processes are not equally bad. What are the additives? Are there chemical conversions of ingredients, and if so do these make the food healthier, or not?
Hydrogenation of vegetable oils isn't necessarily a good thing, but removal of patulin from apple juice by activated carbon adsorbtion is beneficial.
...just an example.

Indeed, not all processed foods, or food processing methods are equal. But the article, and thus the conversation, is about the possible adverse health implications of 'ultra-processed foods' (e.g, BMJ 2024;384:e077310) under the NOVA classification system*, both in terms of the intrinsic risks and the risks associated with the proportion of UPFs within dietary intake overall.


* "Ultra-processed foods are industrial formulations made entirely or mostly from substances extracted from foods (oils, fats, sugar, starch, and proteins), derived from food constituents (hydrogenated fats and modified starch), or synthesized in laboratories from food substrates or other organic sources (flavor enhancers, colors, and several food additives used to make the product hyper-palatable). Manufacturing techniques include extrusion, moulding and preprocessing by frying. Beverages may be ultra-processed. Group 1 foods are a small proportion of, or are even absent from, ultra-processed products."

[rainbow]

'ultra-processed foods' (e.g, BMJ 2024;384:e077310) under the NOVA classification system*, both in terms of the intrinsic risks and the risks associated with the proportion of UPFs within dietary intake overall.

THE GOLDEN RULE:
“Always prefer natural or minimally
processed foods and freshly made dishes and meals to ultra-processed foods.”

[Brian Peacock]

The problem is that flavour-enhanced foods loaded with free fats, salts, and sugars are pretty morish - like heroin, or masturbation!

[rainbow]

Gregg's pies. I ate one.

[Brian Peacock]

Pervert!

What did you go for? The vegan sausage roll?

[Strontium Dog]

The vegan Mexican bake they have at the moment is pretty nice. Honourable mention to the vegan steak bake, which seems to be on hiatus.

Although my favourite Greggs pastry of all time is the nacho chilli cheese bake (vegetarian only).

The also used to do a cheese and onion quiche about 20 years ago which is still the best I've ever tasted.

[Brian Peacock]

I was a bugger for their doughnuts for a while.