US Self Defence nut gets banned from the UK

[mistermack]

Pardon? Maybe you should actually read what I post. And take note of the word "later" in the Wikipedia extract, as well as my comment. The screeching sound you hear is caused by the belated and unconvincing backpedalling Yusuf Islam engaged in. Going by the demeanour he expressed his opinions about his religion and Rushdie, it seems to me he meant every word of them at the time.

I still don't get what bit of "Hypothetical" you are having trouble with.
Is it the hypo, or the thetical?

If he meant every word of those opinions at the time, then he obviously didn't mean his statement the next day.
In spite of the fact that that statement WASN'T labelled hypothetical, and wasn't for entertainment.

He obviously isn't going to say that the Koran is wrong. You won't find many Muslims that would.
If you want someone to condemn, you have a choice of billions.
All the Muslims that say the the Koran is true, and all the fundamental Christians that say the bible is true.
Take your pick. They all support outrageous shit. You should have a great time.

[Hermit]

Pardon? Maybe you should actually read what I post. And take note of the word "later" in the Wikipedia extract, as well as my comment. The screeching sound you hear is caused by the belated and unconvincing backpedalling Yusuf Islam engaged in. Going by the demeanour he expressed his opinions about his religion and Rushdie, it seems to me he meant every word of them at the time.

I still don't get what bit of "Hypothetical" you are having trouble with.
Is it the hypo, or the thetical?

The program was called Hypothetical. It was Geoffrey Robertson's device to probe people' opinions, which were nothing but hypothetical. They meant what they said.

Also, look at Yusuf Islam's pronouncement at Kingston University in London. Not only did he say that Rushdie "must be killed. The Qur'an makes it clear - if someone defames the prophet, then he must die", but in his following so-called retraction he said that blasphemy is a capital offence according to the Qur'an. Poor Rushdie. And all other blasphemers...

[Tyrannical]

No would care about some self-defense nut if the British police weren't a bunch of useless pussies. People were scared and felt powerless during the riots last year, and some people are looking towards any means to protect themselves and their property.

[mistermack]

Seraph, your own post makes it bleeding obvious how hypothetical these debates are :

Two months later Yusuf Islam appeared on a British television program, BBC's Hypotheticals, an occasional broadcast featuring a panel of notable guests to explore a hypothetical situation with moral, ethical and/or political dilemmas. In the episode ("A Satanic Scenario"), Islam had an exchange about the issue with the moderator and Queens Counsel Geoffrey Robertson.

Geoffry Robertson is a clever QC, he put Islam in the position of denying the truth of the Koran, or agreeing with the Fatwah. Not being a devious politician, Islam has no idea how to bullshit a lot, and say nothing.

He chose the one that Robertson knew he would choose.
It proves fuck-all. All muslims will endorse the Koran.

As far as I'm concerned, that twat Rushdie is still alive.
No muslim has killed him.
That's how people in the middle east speak. They go hugely over the top with the rhetoric. But rarely back it up with action. It's not meant that way. Everybody knows that. If you want heinous quotes, the East is your oyster.

It's in stark contrast to the West.
In the US, they swear blind that they abhor torture.
And then torture individual captives in Guantanemo Bay A HUNDRED AND FIFTY TIMES.

Salman Rushdie had a fatwah, and is still alive.
Osama Bin Laden had no fatwah, and is still dead.

[Mysturji]

Golly, Mack, you seem a little irritated about this whole thing. What gives?

Freedom to be a twat is very low on other people's priority list.

[mistermack]

Freedom to be a twat is very low on other people's priority list.

I wouldn't agree.

Someone earlier jumped in desperately eager to mention his jujitsu second dam.
I'm not sure if that indicates a twat or a tosser.

[Mysturji]

Freedom to be a twat is very low on other people's priority list.

I wouldn't agree.

Someone earlier jumped in desperately eager to mention his jujitsu second dam.
I'm not sure if that indicates a twat or a tosser.

I think every post you've made in this thread indicates a twat AND a tosser.
Some day, you may be faced by a mindless thug or three intent on doing you harm. In that event, I wish you luck. You'll need it.
To make my position on self defence absolutely clear:

Violence is the last resort of the incompetent.

I disagree.
Violence is the FIRST resort of the incompetent, the LAST resort of the intelligent.

I am a pacifist. By that I mean that there is always a preferable alternative to violence... until someone decides to use it. At that point, I become a realist.
Violence is a language. Sometimes you just have to be more fluent than the other guy.
As for "jumping in", I was responding to another post from someone else who actually understands the topic being discussed, which you obviously don't.

So what part of "self defence" do you not understand? "Self", or "defence"?

[mistermack]

So what part of "self defence" do you not understand? "Self", or "defence"?

What I do understand, is that I'm over sixty, and I haven't needed "self defence" since I was a child.
When we were children, we used to "self defend" all the time. But I and the people I know grew out of it.

Some people never grow up.

[Mysturji]

Some people never grow up.

That's why other people still need to defend themselves.
Are we learning yet?

You seem quite eager to defend yourself in this thread. Apparently it's only the real world you have a problem with.

[mistermack]

Some people never grow up.

That's why other people still need to defend themselves.
Are we learning yet?

You seem quite eager to defend yourself in this thread. Apparently it's only the real world you have a problem with.

In the real world, I also enjoy a debate.

I did say quite clearly earlier, that there is nothing wrong with guns or martial arts.
If they are used by rational balanced people.
It's just that it doesn't happen that way. Guns and martial arts end up being carried and practised by inadequate unbalanced people. The very people who were the problem in the first place.

[Mysturji]

Some people never grow up.

That's why other people still need to defend themselves.
Are we learning yet?

You seem quite eager to defend yourself in this thread. Apparently it's only the real world you have a problem with.

In the real world, I also enjoy a debate.

I did say quite clearly earlier, that there is nothing wrong with guns or martial arts.
If they are used by rational balanced people.
It's just that it doesn't happen that way. Guns and martial arts end up being carried and practised by inadequate unbalanced people. The very people who were the problem in the first place.

Any idiot can buy a gun and shoot someone, or leave it lying around for their kids to play with.
Learning a martial art to a reasonable standard takes years of hard work, dedication and discipline, during which time one develops a deep understanding of just how fragile the Human body is, and how precious life is. This instills a sense of respect for one's fellow humans, a reluctance to resort to violence (except if/when necessary) and the confidence to refrain from violence when fear might otherwise prompt them into doing something rash.
Spot the difference.

[charlou]

Seraph, your own post makes it bleeding obvious how hypothetical these debates are :

Two months later Yusuf Islam appeared on a British television program, BBC's Hypotheticals, an occasional broadcast featuring a panel of notable guests to explore a hypothetical situation with moral, ethical and/or political dilemmas. In the episode ("A Satanic Scenario"), Islam had an exchange about the issue with the moderator and Queens Counsel Geoffrey Robertson.

Geoffry Robertson is a clever QC, he put Islam in the position of denying the truth of the Koran, or agreeing with the Fatwah. Not being a devious politician, Islam has no idea how to bullshit a lot, and say nothing.

He chose the one that Robertson knew he would choose.
It proves fuck-all. All muslims will endorse the Koran.

As far as I'm concerned, that twat Rushdie is still alive.
No muslim has killed him.
That's how people in the middle east speak. They go hugely over the top with the rhetoric. But rarely back it up with action. It's not meant that way. Everybody knows that. If you want heinous quotes, the East is your oyster.

It's in stark contrast to the West.
In the US, they swear blind that they abhor torture.
And then torture individual captives in Guantanemo Bay A HUNDRED AND FIFTY TIMES.

Salman Rushdie had a fatwah, and is still alive.
Osama Bin Laden had no fatwah, and is still dead.

Fuck, that's a provocative post ... You've given me a couple of things to think about there. Cheers.

[Hermit]

Seraph, your own post makes it bleeding obvious how hypothetical these debates are :

Two months later Yusuf Islam appeared on a British television program, BBC's Hypotheticals, an occasional broadcast featuring a panel of notable guests to explore a hypothetical situation with moral, ethical and/or political dilemmas. In the episode ("A Satanic Scenario"), Islam had an exchange about the issue with the moderator and Queens Counsel Geoffrey Robertson.

Please don't attribute words to me that I did not say or write.

What I did say, was this:

The program was called Hypothetical. It was Geoffrey Robertson's device to probe people' opinions, which were nothing but hypothetical. They meant what they said.

Also, look at Yusuf Islam's pronouncement at Kingston University in London. Not only did he say that Rushdie "must be killed. The Qur'an makes it clear - if someone defames the prophet, then he must die", but in his following so-called retraction he said that blasphemy is a capital offence according to the Qur'an. Poor Rushdie. And all other blasphemers...

That's how people in the middle east speak. They go hugely over the top with the rhetoric. But rarely back it up with action.

Which means they are no different to anyone else, except that when muslims back their over the top rhetoric up with action, the consequences tend to be rather explosive, don't you think?

Also, I do hope you noticed that I am opposed to the prohibitions placed on Yusuf Islam and that other nutter.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Golly, Mack, you seem a little irritated about this whole thing. What gives?

You still taking me seriously? I must try to remember an american might read what I write.
I must keep it simple.

Aww, how cute, he thinks he's being supercilious.

[mistermack]

Any idiot can buy a gun and shoot someone, or leave it lying around for their kids to play with.
Learning a martial art to a reasonable standard takes years of hard work, dedication and discipline, during which time one develops a deep understanding of just how fragile the Human body is, and how precious life is. This instills a sense of respect for one's fellow humans, a reluctance to resort to violence (except if/when necessary) and the confidence to refrain from violence when fear might otherwise prompt them into doing something rash.
Spot the difference.

And an irresistible urge to bang on about it and mention one's martial art when nobody's asked.

I seem to have managed to pick up most of those attributes and understandings without dressing like a prick, and needing to tell everybody.
I feel I'm confident enough to refrain from violence tonight, grasshopper. It's the wisdom of the Guinness that guides me safely.
And I have reached black pint, first round, before you ask.