US Has No Ability to Pay Back Debt

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Well that's what the problem is then. Raise taxes. It's not an argument, it's an inevitability. The budget really needs to balance. Over time.

And, again, why not close the loopholes on existing taxes. If you raise taxes you're just buying some attorney's mistress a new Ferrari.

[Pappa]

The Chinese are already making the transition from low-tech to high-tech value-added manufacture in many areas. They're channelling a lot of money into science and R&D (more than any other country by GDP IIRK). They have a growing middle class to help boost demand for consumer and luxury goods, and they can continue undercutting the rest of the world in basic manufacturing for the forseeable future. I'm pretty sure they'll become economically and politically dominant in my own lifetime.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

The Chinese are already making the transition from low-tech to high-tech value-added manufacture in many areas. They're channelling a lot of money into science and R&D (more than any other country by GDP IIRK). They have a growing middle class to help boost demand for consumer and luxury goods, and they can continue undercutting the rest of the world in basic manufacturing for the forseeable future. I'm pretty sure they'll become economically and politically dominant in my own lifetime.

And they're making their country a hell in the process. It's going to be a greater ecological disaster than the USSR by the time it's done. We get Chinese pollution here.

[Pappa]

The Chinese are already making the transition from low-tech to high-tech value-added manufacture in many areas. They're channelling a lot of money into science and R&D (more than any other country by GDP IIRK). They have a growing middle class to help boost demand for consumer and luxury goods, and they can continue undercutting the rest of the world in basic manufacturing for the forseeable future. I'm pretty sure they'll become economically and politically dominant in my own lifetime.

And they're making their country a hell in the process. It's going to be a greater ecological disaster than the USSR by the time it's done. We get Chinese pollution here.

Idk, things are changing quite quickly. One of their big investments is renewable energy. The largest solar panel company in the world is in China. They rest of the world already fucked their countries in their industrial revolutions, but china will likely leapfrog some of the worst bits entirely, especially if they ever find a way to make renewables as cheap as coal. I'm sure they'll find ways of dealing with the other pollution problems eventually too, probably by outsourcing their primary manufacturing industries to other countries as they transition to high-tech value-added manufacture. Though, they'll likely rely on their own poorer areas for a long time yet.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

The Chinese are already making the transition from low-tech to high-tech value-added manufacture in many areas. They're channelling a lot of money into science and R&D (more than any other country by GDP IIRK). They have a growing middle class to help boost demand for consumer and luxury goods, and they can continue undercutting the rest of the world in basic manufacturing for the forseeable future. I'm pretty sure they'll become economically and politically dominant in my own lifetime.

And they're making their country a hell in the process. It's going to be a greater ecological disaster than the USSR by the time it's done. We get Chinese pollution here.

Idk, things are changing quite quickly. One of their big investments is renewable energy. The largest solar panel company in the world is in China. They rest of the world already fucked their countries in their industrial revolutions, but china will likely leapfrog some of the worst bits entirely, especially if they ever find a way to make renewables as cheap as coal. I'm sure they'll find ways of dealing with the other pollution problems eventually too, probably by outsourcing their primary manufacturing industries to other countries as they transition to high-tech value-added manufacture. Though, they'll likely rely on their own poorer areas for a long time yet.

I doubt they're seriously concerned about the environment. They're looking at solar to avoid buying oil, but that's nothing to do with any environmental concerns.

[Exi5tentialist]

And, again, why not close the loopholes on existing taxes. If you raise taxes you're just buying some attorney's mistress a new Ferrari.

Yes fine, close all the loopholes. Then raise taxes if you haven't closed the gap.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

And, again, why not close the loopholes on existing taxes. If you raise taxes you're just buying some attorney's mistress a new Ferrari.

Yes fine, close all the loopholes. Then raise taxes if you haven't closed the gap.

How do you close the loopholes, please?

[Don't Panic]

The Chinese are already making the transition from low-tech to high-tech value-added manufacture in many areas. They're channelling a lot of money into science and R&D (more than any other country by GDP IIRK). They have a growing middle class to help boost demand for consumer and luxury goods, and they can continue undercutting the rest of the world in basic manufacturing for the forseeable future. I'm pretty sure they'll become economically and politically dominant in my own lifetime.

And they're making their country a hell in the process. It's going to be a greater ecological disaster than the USSR by the time it's done. We get Chinese pollution here.

Idk, things are changing quite quickly. One of their big investments is renewable energy. The largest solar panel company in the world is in China. They rest of the world already fucked their countries in their industrial revolutions, but china will likely leapfrog some of the worst bits entirely, especially if they ever find a way to make renewables as cheap as coal. I'm sure they'll find ways of dealing with the other pollution problems eventually too, probably by outsourcing their primary manufacturing industries to other countries as they transition to high-tech value-added manufacture. Though, they'll likely rely on their own poorer areas for a long time yet.

I doubt they're seriously concerned about the environment. They're looking at solar to avoid buying oil, but that's nothing to do with any environmental concerns.

The breakthrough in renewables won't come from the environmentalists, it will come from people looking for cheaper energy.

[Azathoth]

And, again, why not close the loopholes on existing taxes. If you raise taxes you're just buying some attorney's mistress a new Ferrari.

Yes fine, close all the loopholes. Then raise taxes if you haven't closed the gap.

How do you close the loopholes, please?

invade the tax havens

[Gawdzilla Sama]

The breakthrough in renewables won't come from the environmentalists, it will come from people looking for cheaper energy.

Agreed, but the fact that China is looking for cheap energy does not mean they give a damn about the environment. Their attitude has been noted repeatedly, with dismay.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

And, again, why not close the loopholes on existing taxes. If you raise taxes you're just buying some attorney's mistress a new Ferrari.

Yes fine, close all the loopholes. Then raise taxes if you haven't closed the gap.

How do you close the loopholes, please?

invade the tax havens

They're laws. You'd have to get a vote to repeal them. The Republicans' owners won't allow that. "An honest politician is one that stays bought."

[Warren Dew]

It seems Standard & Poor is starting to agree with Gawd's original post.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-08-0 ... ccord.html

[Warren Dew]

The rich folks' property, the Republican build those loopholes into every tax bill.

Actually, many big tax breaks are there because of Obama or other Democrats. A fair amount of Obama's "stimulus" was in the form of tax credits.

I'd certainly like to see those removed, along with most other deductions and tax credits, no matter who first wanted them.

Edit: The Republican Ryan plan involved closing most or all tax loopholes, by the way. Granted, there were some Republicans that didn't care for that plan, along with most Democrats.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

The rich folks' property, the Republican build those loopholes into every tax bill.

Actually, many big tax breaks are there because of Obama or other Democrats. A fair amount of Obama's "stimulus" was in the form of tax credits.

I'd certainly like to see those removed, along with most other deductions and tax credits, no matter who first wanted them.

Crap. Loopholes are how Republicans pay for their elections. This is nothing new, so don't blame Obama.

[Azathoth]

And, again, why not close the loopholes on existing taxes. If you raise taxes you're just buying some attorney's mistress a new Ferrari.

Yes fine, close all the loopholes. Then raise taxes if you haven't closed the gap.

How do you close the loopholes, please?

invade the tax havens

They're laws. You'd have to get a vote to repeal them. The Republicans' owners won't allow that. "An honest politician is one that stays bought."

I know what a tax loophole is. Shit like this is why I mentioned tax havens

http://www.smh.com.au/technology/techno ... 16wf8.html