The rising cost of health insurance.

[mistermack]

My cousin has nine brothers and sisters. They all chip in for the cost of treatment for the husband of one of them.
He had a good job, and good health insurance. When he got ill, he was covered and treated perfectly well for a couple of years. After that, he lost the job, and the insurance, and was fucked.

Obviously, I don't know the details. I remember him getting sick, and the fact that he had good insurance and good treatment.
It came as a big surprise to me that this could expire, if you couldn't work.

If he qualifies for medicaid, then it must be shite, because they are all jointly paying cash for his treatment.

What's the point of health insurance that runs out when you get ill, or get laid off?
Sure, it's fine when everythings going well. (apart from the price) But that's not the point, is it?

You people who think you're well covered. How certain are you of nothing going wrong? You get the wrong kind of illness, or forgot to mention something when you applied?

And it doesn't even have to happen to you. My cousins are paying out, for their sister's husband.
You could end up paying for your uninsured kids or parents, or aunts etc.
Nobody forces you to, but it's still happening all over.

As far as I'm concerned, its a fucked up system if it doesn't cover everyone.
And laklak, what you ignore, is that anybody here can still go private for cash, or have private health insurance if they want. Nobody's going to stop you.

[Coito ergo sum]

My cousin has nine brothers and sisters. They all chip in for the cost of treatment for the husband of one of them.
He had a good job, and good health insurance. When he got ill, he was covered and treated perfectly well for a couple of years. After that, he lost the job, and the insurance, and was fucked.

An employee has the legal right to continue coverage under an employer plan after they leave employment.

Obviously, I don't know the details. I remember him getting sick, and the fact that he had good insurance and good treatment.
It came as a big surprise to me that this could expire, if you couldn't work.

If he qualifies for medicaid, then it must be shite, because they are all jointly paying cash for his treatment.

Medicaid is by all means NOT shite.

What's the point of health insurance that runs out when you get ill, or get laid off?

It doesn't run out, unless you opt not to continue coverage.

Sure, it's fine when everythings going well. (apart from the price) But that's not the point, is it?

You people who think you're well covered. How certain are you of nothing going wrong?

As certain as you.

You get the wrong kind of illness, or forgot to mention something when you applied?

And it doesn't even have to happen to you. My cousins are paying out, for their sister's husband.
You could end up paying for your uninsured kids or parents, or aunts etc.
Nobody forces you to, but it's still happening all over.

What are they paying for? The care or the insurance premiums? My bet is they are chipping in to pay a premium.

As far as I'm concerned, its a fucked up system if it doesn't cover everyone.
And laklak, what you ignore, is that anybody here can still go private for cash, or have private health insurance if they want. Nobody's going to stop you.

So, the rich get better care because they have more money to pay? Sounds peachy.

[Seth]

If she'd been in the UK, there's no telling how long she would have had to wait to get diagnosed and sent for a pap smear, or how long to get a pap smear, or how long to get the outpatient surgical procedure (essentially electrocuting and shaving her cervix free of cancer) itself. Most likely, by the time she got the recommendation for a pap smear, if some NHS shrink ever actually put two and two together and she hadn't first died of pylonephritis due to delayed medical care (which in her case is what triggered the pap smear), and then if she'd actually been able to get the outpatient procedure done in time to stop the cancer before it spread, which is unlikely in the NHS, she'd likely have died from being denied or delayed a hysterectomy and chemo because it was deemed "too expensive" for the NHS to bother with or simply because her treatment was delayed too long.

Hmm, I think you've been misinformed about the NHS. Pap smear tests are free and routine.

Maybe, maybe not. And maybe it takes six months to get an appointment to get a pap smear.

A few years ago my girlfriend at the time went for her regular pap test on the NHS, she was 30 I think at the time, she was quickly called back to the hospital for followup checks and after quick outpatient treatment she was fine, but had her checkups increased in regularity.

Lucky her...this time. What happens when bureaucrats decide that regular pap smears are "not necessary" because some death panel has decided that really, if you look at the statistics, not ALL that many women get cancer and it's expensive to do and so they really don't NEED an annual pap smear (read: mammogram) so it recommends that regular pap smears (read: mammograms) ought to be removed from the list of available services?

She's fucked, that's what happens, and what is happening all over the globe in countries with socialize medicine, and even here in the US, where our Death Panels are making exactly that sort of recommendation. Mammograms, PSA tests for prostate cancer, and lost of other tests that they've decided aren't statistically "significant" when it comes to saving lives, but which are pretty fucking significant to the person who actually does have cancer. That's how Death Panels work, you see. It's not standing grandma up in front of a review board to have her declared biologically redundant, it's done by "determining" that certain tests are "unnecessary" for any of several bogus reasons, which means that those tests are no longer covered by insurance, which results in more people getting expensive terminal illnesses that aren't detected until it's "uneconomical" to treat them, and so they die.

Motherfuckers are nothing if not Machiavellian in their plot to ration health care.

One of my relatives died of cancer, but I can tell you now it was not due to the speed of or quality of NHS treatment, it was down to him ignoring his symptoms for a year and then he was already in serious trouble. Once diagnosed he quickly had tests, specialists working out his treatment, and over the next couple of years they tried everything and did their absolute best for him, various operations, drugs, chemo, etc.

That'll soon come to an end because the NHS can no longer afford to throw huge amounts of money at terminal illnesses, so what they will do is start blaming the patient for the delay and will wash their hands of responsibility, saying, "you should have come in sooner, I'm afraid there's nothing we can (economically) do for you now except give you morphine to dull the pain." That already happens in the UK.

Don't believe the anti NHS myths Seth, or worse make up new ones, or perhaps worse still believe that individual incidents highlighted by the anti NHS brigade are the norm. Bad things happen in any healthcare system, but generally the NHS is hugely popular with the people who use it.

Of course it is. The dependent class is always happy with the largess they've voted themselves from the public treasury...until the treasury is empty, as it is in the UK at the moment, which is why "austerity measures" are looming for the NHS, which means rationed care, unavailable treatments and Death Panels.

The biggest danger to the NHS in England is the Conservative government, who are categorically NOT "reforming" the NHS because of money.

Horseshit. The UK is nearly bankrupt because of it's endless social programs that can no longer be supported by the productive class, which is fleeing the shores in droves. The NHS, despite its popularity to the dependent class, is the largest drain on the English economy and it's going to suck it dry if it's not taken under control, which means rationing care.

That is their cover for all the massive ideological changes they are imposing on UK in every policy area, many changes they did NOT have in their manifesto for the 2010 election. They have no mandate.

Their "massive ideological changes" appear to involve recognition of economic reality and a determination not to let the UK go into default and bankruptcy.

In Scotland our NHS is under financial pressure too, every part of UK and every area of the economy is under financial pressure, but unlike in England it is not being reformed/privatised. Thank fuck. But me ... and most in Scotland (and likely England if given the choice) prefer spending money on health rather than, oh, I dont know, nukes? Illegal wars?

Oh, it will be, quite soon. Just wait, you'll get yours...or not get yours more accurately.

The NHS was created after the war at a time when it could NOT be afforded ... but it was, and it's something to be valued.

Right up until the OPM runs out, which it has. Now the chickens are coming home to roost. Have fun with the results.

Oh, and in UK you can still go private if you want, and have the money.

Only because the wealthy kept it that way by hard work. They tried to deny that in Canada, but their Supreme Court ruled it was a violation of Canadian's rights to deny them the ability to buy their own health care outside the NHS system.

[pErvinalia]

Don't believe the anti NHS myths Seth, or worse make up new ones, or perhaps worse still believe that individual incidents highlighted by the anti NHS brigade are the norm. Bad things happen in any healthcare system, but generally the NHS is hugely popular with the people who use it.

Of course it is. The dependent class is always happy with the largess they've voted themselves from the public treasury...

As are you with the roads and military largesse you've voted for yourself. Those in dependent class glasshouses, shouldn't throw stones.

[ronmcd]

If she'd been in the UK, there's no telling how long she would have had to wait to get diagnosed and sent for a pap smear, or how long to get a pap smear, or how long to get the outpatient surgical procedure (essentially electrocuting and shaving her cervix free of cancer) itself. Most likely, by the time she got the recommendation for a pap smear, if some NHS shrink ever actually put two and two together and she hadn't first died of pylonephritis due to delayed medical care (which in her case is what triggered the pap smear), and then if she'd actually been able to get the outpatient procedure done in time to stop the cancer before it spread, which is unlikely in the NHS, she'd likely have died from being denied or delayed a hysterectomy and chemo because it was deemed "too expensive" for the NHS to bother with or simply because her treatment was delayed too long.

Hmm, I think you've been misinformed about the NHS. Pap smear tests are free and routine.

Maybe, maybe not. And maybe it takes six months to get an appointment to get a pap smear.

Maybe, maybe not. And maybe you eat babies and pulp kittens into your muesli every day? See how easy it is to make shit up? Cervical smear tests are done by a GP & nurse, and in different parts of UK the routine is different but here in Scotland it starts at age 20 and is every few years. If someone went to their GP and asked for a test outwith their screening routine, they would be able to get one.

A few years ago my girlfriend at the time went for her regular pap test on the NHS, she was 30 I think at the time, she was quickly called back to the hospital for followup checks and after quick outpatient treatment she was fine, but had her checkups increased in regularity.

Lucky her...this time. What happens when bureaucrats decide that regular pap smears are "not necessary" because some death panel has decided that really, if you look at the statistics, not ALL that many women get cancer and it's expensive to do and so they really don't NEED an annual pap smear (read: mammogram) so it recommends that regular pap smears (read: mammograms) ought to be removed from the list of available services?

What if the sky really does fall?! Death panels, oh dear jebus.

Why am I talking to Sarah Palin? I think I'll stop ...

[SteveB]

I'm contributing!

Number of doctors in Canada rises sharply, even in rural areas: report

http://life.nationalpost.com/2012/11/15 ... ral-areas/

Go Canada!

[macdoc]

You're so full of shite Seth. Parrot the Repuglies.
My biggest worry about health care in Canada is parking fees and wasting Canadian taxes on over priced single seat fighters to keep your military industrial complex churning out crap that is useless for us.
Primary health care here is fast and effective. Even on of your generals and Republican was on the other night saying how utterly stupid it was the US is the ONLY OECD nation without national healthcare.
Yet you have the highest administrative costs in the world at 25%, highest healthcare costs in the world and poor outcomes relative to other nations.
You even have shorter average life spans than Cubans.

The empire is crumbling - at least with Obama it's on the right track - ending the wars and pulling troops home.
Now if it gets it's tax base in order and cut the military it might have a future again.
The rest of the world knows that ...Obama knows that.
Your politicians in all the houses should be read the riot act and start governing instead of politicking and pandering to special interest groups.

"for the people, ALL the people"........

[SteveB]

I agree, Mac. The US military industrialized complex is so outdated. Imperialism had its heyday in the 19th century, it's fucking archaic and a waste of money now. Cut your bullshit big stick military budget and you'll stop having massive deficits every year.

Simple really.

[Woodbutcher]

Complete bullshit Seth. Sure, there are places in the States where you can get the best healthcare available, if you can afford it.

TANSTAAFL

But overall the Canadian (and possibly the Obamacare) system is far more economically efficient and delivers a high quality of service. It's not perfect, there are problems, but nothing compared to the current system in place in the US.

Bullshit. Canadians flee from Canada to the U.S. every day to get advanced, timely medical care that they have been denied in Canada.

Yes. And it's covered by our health insurance.

[macdoc]

Bullshit. Canadians flee from Canada to the U.S. every day to get advanced, timely medical care that they have been denied in Canada.

sure they do Seth - another koolaid quote
- the only thing they might go to the states for is something like a knee replacement that have a waiting list. That is not primary care....it's covered and if Ontario does not have the particular treatment available then the costs are paid to get it elsewhere.

I walk into my local clinic anyone of 50 within a 30 km radius and get instant primary care and it something is acute the reaction is immediate.
My son's pump for his diabetes and his supplies are all paid for.

As usual a diet of Faux news makes your brain soft.
Get out in the real world more. Some American's actually do....

The scare ads and op-ed pieces featuring Canadians telling us American how terrible their government health-care systems have arrived - predictably.

There's another, factual view - by those of us Americans who've lived in Canada and used their system.

My wife and I did for years, and we've been incensed by the lies we've heard back here in the U.S. about Canada's supposedly broken system.

It's not broken - and what's more, Canadians like and fiercely defend it.

Example: Our son was born at Montreal's Royal Victoria Hospital. My wife got excellent care. The total bill for three days in a semi-private room? $21.

My friend Art Finley is a West Virginia native who lives in Vancouver.

"I'm 82, and in excellent health," he told me this week. "It costs me all of $57 a month for health care, and it's excellent. I'm so tired of all the lies and bullshit I hear about the system up here in the U.S. media."
Finley, a well-known TV and radio host for years in San Francisco, adds,

"I now have 20/20 vision thanks to Canadian eye doctors. And I haven't had to wait for my surgeries, either."
A Canadian-born doctor wrote a hit piece for Wingnut Central (the Wall Street Journal op-ed page) this week David Gratzer claimed:

"Everyone in Canada is covered by a single payer -- the government. But Canadians wait for practically any procedure or diagnostic test or specialist consultation in the public system."
Vancouverite Finley: "That's sheer b.s."

I heard Gratzer say the same thing on Seattle radio station KIRO this week. Trouble is, it's nonsense.

We were always seen promptly by our doctors in Montreal, many of whom spoke both French and English.

Today, we live within sight of the Canadian border in Washington state, and still spend lots of time in Canada.

Five years ago, while we were on vacation in lovely Nova Scotia, the Canadian government released a long-awaited major report from a federal commission studying the Canadian single-payer system. We were listening to CBC Radio the day the big study came out.

The study's conclusion: While the system had flaws, none was so serious it couldn't be fixed.

Then the CBC opened the lines to callers across Canada.

Here it comes, I thought. The usual talk-show torrent of complaints and anger about the report's findings.

I wish Americans could have heard this revealing show.

For the next two hours, scores of Canadians called from across that vast country, from Newfoundland to British Columbia.

Not one said he or she would change the system. Every single one defended it vigorously.

The Greatest Canadian Ever

Further proof:

Not long ago, the CBC asked Canadians to nominate and then vote for The Greatest Canadian in history. Thousands responded.

The winner? Not Wayne Gretzky, as I expected (although the hockey great DID make the Top 10). Not even Alexander Graham Bell, another finalist.

The greatest Canadian ever?

Tommy Douglas.

Who? Tommy Douglas was a Canadian politician - and the father of Canadian universal health care.

get a life....your paranoid crap gets tiresome