TESCO - Forced Labour on Starvation Wages

[Seth]

I have no problem with the principal of folks on benefits being required to work - just not for Starvation Wages. One day it could be me, you.....or Seth

Seth's a good candidate. He's convinced he's smarter than everyone else.This makes him the perfect target for a con artist.

Not bright enough to release that those poorer/less intelligent than him outnumber him heavily and it might not be a good idea not to piss them off.
Welfare /minimum wage and other regulation of the free market is what you give people poorer than you to persuade them not to kill you when they get hungry. Of course you could live in a police state and your own personal bunker but most people even the rich realise thats not a great quality of life

And that's why rational self-interest, charity, altruism and competent adult personalities deal with starving people before they riot. Fact is nobody's starving in the UK, nobody at all, nor will they because people will altruistically act to feed and shelter them long before they actually even get hungry.

But that's not what the Marxist proletarian useful idiots protesting at Tesco are complaining about. They are complaining because Tesco's not offering them enough for them to remain fat, in their posh flat, with their cable TV, internet service, cell phone, three meals a day and their lattes and fancy clothing. Those sort of fat, lazy proletarians are not going to risk getting shot by the police or army by rioting or trying to kill people, they will just make noise and look like the arrogant, selfish fools that they are. They just chant and wave signs and disgust the hard-working people of the UK, who are less and less likely to be charitable to those in genuine need because of the selfish political theater of Marxist dupes.

Your "starving people will riot and kill the rich" argument is just so much ass effluent and you know it. It's a hyperbolic red-herring argument that's meaningless and stupid as applied to the selfish socialists who just want to rob and pillage the rich because they are jealous and envious but too fucking bone-lazy to go out and better themselves through their own labor. They're a drain on society and probably would be candidates for the "Killkenny Cats/Ship of Fools" solution where they are boarded onto an aging freighter, towed out to the middle of the Atlantic and left to either eat each other or perfect Communism, or both.

[surreptitious57]

I am on welfare and do not work but
have no problem with the general principle
that one should give something in return for the
benefit they receive long as they are capable of doing
so : one should focus on what they can do rather than what
they cannot : but it should not be up to Government rather the
individual themselves [ though some times coercion is necessary ]
You may not be able to find or even want work but there are alternatives
such as voluntary or permitted work or study : no one has a free meal ticket and
if tomorrow I was made to work for my benefit as long as the work was amenable and
I was given a small incentive then no complaints from me : as those of us need to thank the
taxpayer from time to time as they pay our bills and put food on our table and clothes on our back
And if aforementioned taxpayer thinks I am a lazy bastard for doing nothing in return I learn to take that
perfectly legitimate criticism and hold my tongue : since they are correct and I have no right to raise my voice
in anger : they keep a roof over my head so the least I can do is thank them once in a while : I do not think they have
a problem with benefit claimants long as they do something in return for the money they get which is perfectly reasonable

[Seth]

I am on welfare and do not work but
have no problem with the general principle
that one should give something in return for the
benefit they receive long as they are capable of doing
so : one should focus on what they can do rather than what
they cannot : but it should not be up to Government rather the
individual themselves [ though some times coercion is necessary ]
You may not be able to find or even want work but there are alternatives
such as voluntary or permitted work or study : no one has a free meal ticket and
if tomorrow I was made to work for my benefit as long as the work was amenable and
I was given a small incentive then no complaints from me : as those of us need to thank the
taxpayer from time to time as they pay our bills and put food on our table and clothes on our back
And if aforementioned taxpayer thinks I am a lazy bastard for doing nothing in return I learn to take that
perfectly legitimate criticism and hold my tongue : since they are correct and I have no right to raise my voice
in anger : they keep a roof over my head so the least I can do is thank them once in a while : I do not think they have
a problem with benefit claimants long as they do something in return for the money they get which is perfectly reasonable

Humility and thankfulness are always favorable traits in the dependent class. Thanks for at least acknowledging that somebody else has to have their labor stolen from them in order to provide your "entitlements." It's a rare thing to see.

[JimC]

What are british laws on force labour?
Methinks you fellows need a reminder of what large prison riots can be like... Remember, if you start enslaving convict, you mmight wake up to notice that one of those is called Spartacus.

And no more colonies to the south to send 'em to...

[surreptitious57]

I am on welfare and do not work but
have no problem with the general principle
that one should give something in return for the
benefit they receive long as they are capable of doing
so : one should focus on what they can do rather than what
they cannot : but it should not be up to Government rather the
individual themselves [ though some times coercion is necessary ]
You may not be able to find or even want work but there are alternatives
such as voluntary or permitted work or study : no one has a free meal ticket and
if tomorrow I was made to work for my benefit as long as the work was amenable and
I was given a small incentive then no complaints from me : as those of us need to thank the
taxpayer from time to time as they pay our bills and put food on our table and clothes on our back
And if aforementioned taxpayer thinks I am a lazy bastard for doing nothing in return I learn to take that
perfectly legitimate criticism and hold my tongue : since they are correct and I have no right to raise my voice
in anger : they keep a roof over my head so the least I can do is thank them once in a while : I do not think they have
a problem with benefit claimants long as they do something in return for the money they get which is perfectly reasonable

Humility and thankfulness are always favorable traits in the dependent class Thanks for at least acknowledging that somebody else has to have their labor stolen from them in order to provide your entitlement It s a rare thing to see

Their labour is not being stolen from them
as they choose to work : if you are referring to
their taxes they would have to pay them anyway
even if there was fuII employment : the money would
simply be directed elsewhere : and as far as being humble
and thankful are concerned I hold no monopoly on either : in
actual fact I have very little : mentioning it once on an internet
site is hardly going out of one s way now : however being exposed in
a television studio by an angry audience of people who are trying to make
something of their lives and where one has no right of reply would be a step in
the right direction though but the feeling surprisingly is not universal : some do of
course resent me doing nothing but others are more relaxed : if I ever worked I would
not care what my government did with my taxes since I have no say in that anyway and the
money is no longer mine once deducted from my salary : just as long as I can live on what is left

[Jesus_of_Nazareth]

I'll explain a few basic and important concepts to you, and in quite a few less words than Seth would

Welfare allows and encourages businesses to pay below a living wage. You could even look to welfare as a "corporate" subsidy because it allows them to pay workers less.
Businesses encourage (il)legal immigrant workers because of simple supply side economics, plus they have lower wage expectations. Especially the illegals. An increasing labor pool with a slower increasing demand causes lower wages. No need to ever pay living wages as long as the government will make up the difference.

Errrr....yes. I thought that was obvious

The only problem is that it's not sustainable - and IMO is a good indicator that the wheels will be falling off the economy (for all) sooner rather than later (not to say that can't be done on a temporary basis or for certain segments - but not wholesale).

[Jesus_of_Nazareth]

I have no problem with the principal of folks on benefits being required to work - just not for Starvation Wages. One day it could be me, you.....or Seth

Seth's a good candidate. He's convinced he's smarter than everyone else.This makes him the perfect target for a con artist.

Not bright enough to release that those poorer/less intelligent than him outnumber him heavily and it might not be a good idea not to piss them off.
Welfare /minimum wage and other regulation of the free market is what you give people poorer than you to persuade them not to kill you when they get hungry. Of course you could live in a police state and your own personal bunker but most people even the rich realise thats not a great quality of life

+1

Being nice to the peasants serves a practical purpose for the powerful - the problem is that the rich (the present day basis for having "power") forget that, and think it is optional. Good luck with that

[MrJonno]

Your "starving people will riot and kill the rich" argument is just so much ass effluent and you know it

Err Russian and Chinese revolutions and pretty close to one in the US during 1920's (reform of capitalism prevented this)

If capitalism collapses in Greece there is a risk of the same thing happening there ( I wouldn want to be poor in Greece at the moment but even that would be preferable to being rich there)

[Gawdzilla Sama]

The Romans were careful to prove "bread and circuses" to the idle masses. They knew that they could be set off with unfortunate results for the ruling classes.

[Svartalf]

Which, ultimately was a mistake, as the idle masses proved to be a political hazard and eventually were too lazy to go on providing the backbone of the Roman legions... and Roe started to fall when "auxiliaries" became their main fighting force.

[Jesus_of_Nazareth]

Does anyone else recognise some similarities with the fall of Rome?

[Seth]

Your "starving people will riot and kill the rich" argument is just so much ass effluent and you know it

Err Russian and Chinese revolutions and pretty close to one in the US during 1920's (reform of capitalism prevented this)

People were actually starving in both Russia and China. Not the case in the US, ever, not even in the "Roaring 20's." Wasn't until 1929 that the Great Depression started (thanks to government meddling, of course) and was perpetuated for more than a decade longer than necessary by even more Progressive government meddling by FDR. And we were never "pretty close" to starving people or the killing of the rich.

If capitalism collapses in Greece there is a risk of the same thing happening there ( I wouldn want to be poor in Greece at the moment but even that would be preferable to being rich there)

Greece's problem is the Socialists, not Capitalism. It's the Socialists who are demanding something for nothing and are objecting to the gravy train being derailed, not the Capitalists.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Does anyone else recognise some similarities with the fall of Rome?

The Romans were careful to prove "bread and circuses" to the idle masses. They knew that they could be set off with unfortunate results for the ruling classes.

Which, ultimately was a mistake, as the idle masses proved to be a political hazard and eventually were too lazy to go on providing the backbone of the Roman legions... and Roe started to fall when "auxiliaries" became their main fighting force.

[Jesus_of_Nazareth]

Greece's problem is the Socialists, not Capitalism. It's the Socialists who are demanding something for nothing and are objecting to the gravy train being derailed, not the Capitalists.

It's a bit of both - what you call "Socialist" was simply a way of bribing the masses to keep 'em from getting upitty whilst the "great and the good" looted the Treasury.

The only difference with the USA is that the Americans don't take so much cash to bribe - the difference made up with propoganda / indoctrination (USA - No.1 ).


UK much the same as Greece.

[MrJonno]

Greece's problem is the Socialists, not Capitalism. It's the Socialists who are demanding something for nothing and are objecting to the gravy train being derailed, not the Capitalists.

No I think you will find its capitalists not paying taxes and too many bribes flying around.

However I can think of a good capitalist solution

Double the number of tax collectors, double their salaries and put them on commission say 1% of any legitimate tax receipts they bring in