Census: Poor and "Near Poor" 1/3 of US

[PsychoSerenity]

HAVING DISPOSABLE INCOME does not qualify you for being poor.

Care to refute that?

Disposable income is any income less taxes and other mandatory payments, which do NOT include food, medical, rent, travel, utilities, child care, etc. - These are all essential expenses that are paid out of the disposable income. Once they've all been paid, up to a reasonable standard of living, what you are left with, if anything, is called discretionary income, - which is available to be spent or saved.

True, by strict definition, but the two are commonly confused, as indeed they are being in this case.

...But more than half were pushed down from higher income levels: more than eight million by taxes, six million by medical expenses, and four million by work expenses like transportation and child care.

In other words, what they're talking about in the article is discretionary income.

Yes the article certainly confuses it - but only in the definition of "near poor" - with the example they give of $40,000 a year after taking out taxes (which should be taken out anyway), medical care and transportation, they then adjust the poverty level for the region's high cost of living - so rent is still to come out of that and presumably most other unmentioned expenses too. They certainly don't have a discretionary income of $40,000 or it wouldn't take three years to save $3,000.

[Feck]

Give me a fucking break, "near poor". Thats a real insult to those who exist in actual poverty rather than a bunch of spoiled fucking princelings who had everything handed to them on a plate and are now complaining the plate is made of silver rather than gold.

Ok You think that people should be able to live on minimum wage ..... You think that you can keep your head above water on minimum wage ?

Our daughter does. Most of her discretionary income goes on booze, cigs, mobile bill and nice clothes, but that's her choice.

Does she really , how long will this last ? what are her housing costs ?

[Svartalf]

and yes, people should be able to live on minimum wage. Minimum wage should be a living wage, not a misery allowance.

[Geoff]

HAVING DISPOSABLE INCOME does not qualify you for being poor.

Care to refute that?

Disposable income is any income less taxes and other mandatory payments, which do NOT include food, medical, rent, travel, utilities, child care, etc. - These are all essential expenses that are paid out of the disposable income. Once they've all been paid, up to a reasonable standard of living, what you are left with, if anything, is called discretionary income, - which is available to be spent or saved.

True, by strict definition, but the two are commonly confused, as indeed they are being in this case.

...But more than half were pushed down from higher income levels: more than eight million by taxes, six million by medical expenses, and four million by work expenses like transportation and child care.

In other words, what they're talking about in the article is discretionary income.

Yes the article certainly confuses it - but only in the definition of "near poor" - with the example they give of $40,000 a year after taking out taxes (which should be taken out anyway), medical care and transportation, they then adjust the poverty level for the region's high cost of living - so rent is still to come out of that and presumably most other unmentioned expenses too. They certainly don't have a discretionary income of $40,000 or it wouldn't take three years to save $3,000.

Sure, but that same example mentions a $230,000 house and two cars. Struggling to pay college fees is not near-poverty.

[Schneibster]

Minimum wage sounds like it's a lot higher in the UK than the US. A lot higher.

ETA: Minimum wage is generally below the poverty line in the US. Just so everyone is aware.

[Audley Strange]

Give me a fucking break, "near poor". Thats a real insult to those who exist in actual poverty rather than a bunch of spoiled fucking princelings who had everything handed to them on a plate and are now complaining the plate is made of silver rather than gold.

Ok You think that people should be able to live on minimum wage ..... You think that you can keep your head above water on minimum wage ?

Yes I do, I managed to get a mortgage, feed cloth and enjoy myself on less than minimum wage for years, without getting into excess debt or pleading poverty. (before it was brought in at which point I lost my job because the company refused to pay minimum wage and instead closed. 1997 or 8 I think) When I did begin to earn minimum wage I managed to actually save a pittance each month.

Well if you share a house with low rent spend your evenings trolling Asda for stuff they have reduced to half price and eat A Lot of 99p fish fingers and think that beans on bargain white toast with maybe a smear of 'margarine ' is an meal ,if you don't smoke or drink or ever go out and if you never need new clothes or bed sheets if your cooker or washing machine never breaks down and you never make the mistake of heating the house in the winter. If you don't want a house phone or the internet . Then yep I agree You are a not spoiled fucking Princeling .

I ate well, I smoked at the time (including weed) managed to heat my rather large apartment during winters and still managed to get a holiday once a year. I have always had a house phone, was an early internet adopter and had quite an active social life. I never had any support or help from the Government in all this (except by them doing the decent thing of bringing in a minimum wage.)

However Feck, even if all I had was a roof over my head and some food to keep me going, I would not think myself "poor". In fact considering the precentage of people on this planet who are starving, who have no chance of jobs prospects or even a roof over their head, I appreciate how lucky I and all of us in the West are, especially after working in Kenya and Tanzania with REAL impoverished people. You know, like kids who would inhale butane to keep them warm and numb at night on the streets. These are poor people. In comparison even the most unfortunate peasants of the West are immeasurably better of. So yeah I think princelings fits well (myself included). I just recognise how lucky and spoilt we are. I find it audacious to talk about "nearly poor" people who have the basic life essentials catered for when it seems the majority of Earth's humans don't. I'm meant to fell sorry for people who don't have a computer or an old car. Fuck that. It pisses me off as much as socialists who complain that "their" jobs have been outsourced to regions where there is REAL tangible life-ending poverty on a day to day basis.

There you go, a challenge work out the minimum wage is for the actual hours you work , then any money you have above that you put into a savings acc ,Live for a whole year on minimum wage THEN and only then You can Call people Princelings .And even that assumes that some of you clothes last a year and you don't have any other unexpected costs .

See above. From 1987 til 1998 mate.

Seriously Fuck you fucking Penis You have no idea . And we haven't even started you off with the fact that your minimum wage job will fire you before you get the right to a holiday or sick pay ,as a matter of policy , and that you will be without ANY income for 16 weeks before the government Decides that you can live on £55 a week .

Err... what? I have no idea? Fuck you then, you have no idea. By the standards of this "Poverty" scale, I was raised well below that line, even in the U.K. at the time my mother and I were considered broke. You know what we didn't do? Sit on our fucking arses and wait for a handout and then whine that it wasn't enough. I had to go to school wearing hand me downs and had to get a part-time job as SOON as I could. Even by that standard I got free schooling, health care (and bus travel because I lived so far from school.)

I didn't think I was poor then, going to India and the Middle East and Africa made me realise I wasn't. I just had a bit less than than other Princelings.

Again "nearly poor" is an insulting phrase that belittles real poverty by making starvation and homelessness equivalent with not having some gadgets from the techie toy shop.

[maiforpeace]

Minimum wage sounds like it's a lot higher in the UK than the US. A lot higher.

ETA: Minimum wage is generally below the poverty line in the US. Just so everyone is aware.

And the UK has the NHS....HUGE difference. Audley did not take that into account.

[Schneibster]

I managed to get a mortgage,

In the US this is impossible on minimum wage.

[Schneibster]

Minimum wage sounds like it's a lot higher in the UK than the US. A lot higher.

ETA: Minimum wage is generally below the poverty line in the US. Just so everyone is aware.

And the UK has the NHS....HUGE difference. Audley did not take that into account.

Sounds like anti-US bigotry to me.

Bigotry is bigotry. Adults drop bigoted views when presented contradictory evidence.

Children try to get out of it.

[Geoff]

Give me a fucking break, "near poor". Thats a real insult to those who exist in actual poverty rather than a bunch of spoiled fucking princelings who had everything handed to them on a plate and are now complaining the plate is made of silver rather than gold.

Ok You think that people should be able to live on minimum wage ..... You think that you can keep your head above water on minimum wage ?

Our daughter does. Most of her discretionary income goes on booze, cigs, mobile bill and nice clothes, but that's her choice.

Does she really , how long will this last ? what are her housing costs ?

Not sure exactly, about £400-500 a month rent, I think, including overheads. Not planning on it lasting forever, her company (Wetherspoons) is pretty good at promoting from within, but she's managed for 8 months so far, which has included paying off all the debts she built up prior to getting the job.

[Geoff]

Minimum wage sounds like it's a lot higher in the UK than the US. A lot higher.

ETA: Minimum wage is generally below the poverty line in the US. Just so everyone is aware.

Currently £6.08 per hour. Say £1000 per month, full time.

[Schneibster]

With NHS.

ETA: $7.25 in the US. No state can be lower than that. Many are that. A few are higher. There is no healthcare for minimum wage jobs and most are not fulltime. Figuring 30 hours, that's $870 a month. With no healthcare. I spend over $100 a week on food; the least I've ever managed was $80. That leaves $550 for lodging, which you're not finding anywhere.

[Geoff]

With NHS.

Payments for which are compulsorily deducted from salary.

[Audley Strange]

Give me a fucking break, "near poor". Thats a real insult to those who exist in actual poverty rather than a bunch of spoiled fucking princelings who had everything handed to them on a plate and are now complaining the plate is made of silver rather than gold.

Maybe you should read the article.

You're making yourself look like an ass.

Audley sneers, he doesn't bay.

I suspect Audley is still young and inexperienced.

Audley, do you work? Do you support yourself? Do you have any money in the bank? Just asking.

I'm 41. I have worked every day of my life since I was 16. Both the good Lady Strange and I support each other. Yes just this year we finally paid off our mortgage and have a mediocre amount of savings, but paying off our mortgage was both our main priority and we promised we'd be free before both of us reached 40.

I like what you said though and I'll hold my hand up to it. I do sneer. Mostly because I think our political system is as much a joke as religion is and all I hear is bickering between sides which is akin to whether Jesus was compassionate and for the community or whether he was a rugged individualist who believed the authorities were all false save for him, no wonder I fucking sneer.

Politics and religion to me are very similar things. Anachronisms we should have developed beyond. However As I have said before, we were simians a lot longer than we have been domesticated and its going to take longer than any of us before it changes for better or worse and we'll either adapt to our environment or die out.

[Audley Strange]

Minimum wage sounds like it's a lot higher in the UK than the US. A lot higher.

ETA: Minimum wage is generally below the poverty line in the US. Just so everyone is aware.

And the UK has the NHS....HUGE difference. Audley did not take that into account.

Sounds like anti-US bigotry to me.

Bigotry is bigotry. Adults drop bigoted views when presented contradictory evidence.

Children try to get out of it.

yes I noticed you doing precisely that on another thread. Difference is I know I am bigoted and don't pretend otherwise, you refuse to accept you are.