Is it possible for a normal person to become a paedophile?

[Seth]

I want to know why it is, that of those children who are sexually exploited, it is the males who are more likely to go on and offend as adults.

That's a really fucking good question.

Is the premise true, however? Is it a fact that male children who are sexually "exploited" are more likely to go on and offend as adults? I've not seen any statistical evidence that would support this allegation.

And as for women offenders, I give you Mary Kay Letourneau and a host of other female teachers recently arrested (and generally given a slap on the wrist) for having sex with underage boys.

And yes, I think it's much less likely that an older woman having sex with a young boy will be reported, because most boys who get introduced to sex by older women look on it as an honor and a very satisfactory experience, not as "rape." It's prudes who automatically view all sex between adults and young people as "sexual assault," not so much the purported "victims" in many cases. Viz: the movie "The Summer of '42" in which the whole movie is about the rite of sexual passage of a young man with a much older woman.

Perception changes things. If the child is a boy and he is willing and honored then it is not--emotionally--rape.
If a person is unwilling and considers it a violation, then it is.

In the former case the experience is validation, in the latter case it is an injury.

Why is this any different for a girl?

[MiM]

Why is this any different for a girl?

One difference, albeit not an exhaustive answer: She is the one who carries the possible child.

[Seth]

Why is this any different for a girl?

One difference, albeit not an exhaustive answer: She is the one who carries the possible child.

If the girl is pre-pubescent, she can't get pregnant. But lets assume that pregnancy is not a consideration, why would it be different for girls?

[Santa_Claus]

I suspect that for some opportunity plays an important role in bringing out the inner Paedo in people who would consider themselves "normal".

[nellikin]

Re the definition: As a medical diagnosis, pedophilia (or paedophilia) is defined as a psychiatric disorder in adults or late adolescents (persons age 16 or older) typically characterized by a primary or exclusive sexual interest in prepubescent children (generally age 13 years or younger, though onset of puberty may vary)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia. I know it's wiki, but still concurs with what I have already heard. A person who isn't primarily or exclusively interested in children is not a paedophile. So if your primary attraction is to women but you find one girl attractive enough to bonk her, you aren't a paedophile, merely a sicko. The majority of child sex offenders probably fall into the later category - they have partners, children etc. and aren't primarily/solely interested in kiddy fucking.

[Mr.Samsa]

This is an important point. I was thinking about what I wrote and it occurred to me that we have not yet stated a credible definition of what "pedophilia" is.

And this brings us back to the discussion we had with Lord Pasternack some time ago about sexual precocity, particularly in girls.

One of the other factors that might explain some aspects of the evident rise in adult/child sex is the fact that, particularly in the US, girls are reaching puberty and menarche significantly earlier, sometimes as young as 10 or 11 years of age. I have friends who have a girl who was fully-developed, with breasts, pubic hair and had her first period at 11. It was frankly impossible to distinguish her from a 16 or 17 year old girl. She was 5'4" tall and had all the requisite curves. I was utterly shocked when I was told she was only 11.

Some scientists put this lowering of the age of sexual maturity in girls on the almost ubiquitous existence of female hormones in the environment. This pollution, primarily from plastics and from the presence of birth-control chemicals in water supplies, has become so widespread that even fish in our rivers are being affected, and we now see sexually-ambiguous fish, and fewer male fish, in streams downstream from municipal sewage outlets. Modern sewer plants are not built to remove or neutralize birth-control hormones.

This phenomenon was first seen in Boulder, Colorado some years ago, and since then studies have found the same effects in other places, and since most towns and cities draw their drinking water from rivers, and purify it, they are in effect drinking the effluent from upstream, and this includes hormones that haven't been tested for in the past.

Combine this with hormone-mimicking chemicals in plastic, and we are seeing a detectable trend downwards in the age of female sexual maturity in parts of the US.

I'm not sure how valid the claims of "hormones in the environment" are, but I agree that the apparent earlier onset of puberty in some girls might affect how sexualised they become and could increase instances of pedophilia (or rather, attraction to minors).

Mr. Samsa, your definition sets the age at 11, presumably because this is sufficiently before most girls begin to develop secondary sexual characteristics like pubic hair and breasts, but I wonder if this might need to be adjusted to be more objectively based in the physical development of the girl. It's somewhat difficult to say, from an objective scientific viewpoint, that attraction to a sexually mature female, regardless of her age, is anything but biologically sound. Objections to such attractions seem to mostly be based in the "ick factor" and social mores, not any rational biological metric.

So before we go too far, we need to accurately define what a pedophile is, based on objective science, not social mores. An old/young relationship might be socially and legally unacceptable for any number of reasons, but I have my doubts that simple sexual attraction to a sexually-mature person really qualifies as a psychological defect.

The definition I gave is the one generally used by the DSM (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders), as attraction to children aged 11-14 is hebephilia, and attraction to minors above that age is ephebophilia. The important point when discussing mental disorders, however, is that it doesn't matter whether something is "biologically sound" or not, as we're not trying to determine whether something is "normal". Instead we're trying to figure out whether a certain belief or behavior negatively impacts the functioning or well-being of an individual, and people can obviously become quite distressed being attracted to children (as well as the fact that being obsessed with an illegal activity can have severe consequences for you). You'll probably note that this definition accepts the possibility of being attracted to children without having a mental disorder - if your attraction does not negatively affect your life (i.e. you're okay with these thoughts and presumably you don't rape any children) then you're not technically a pedophile, in the medical sense.

*I say "you" a lot above, but it's supposed to be interpreted in the general meaning, rather than an accusation!

Re the definition: As a medical diagnosis, pedophilia (or paedophilia) is defined as a psychiatric disorder in adults or late adolescents (persons age 16 or older) typically characterized by a primary or exclusive sexual interest in prepubescent children (generally age 13 years or younger, though onset of puberty may vary)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia. I know it's wiki, but still concurs with what I have already heard. A person who isn't primarily or exclusively interested in children is not a paedophile. So if your primary attraction is to women but you find one girl attractive enough to bonk her, you aren't a paedophile, merely a sicko. The majority of child sex offenders probably fall into the later category - they have partners, children etc. and aren't primarily/solely interested in kiddy fucking.

Yeah wikipedia isn't really the best source, but it clarifies the exclusivity part later:

Many terms have been used to distinguish "true pedophiles" from non-pedophilic and non-exclusive offenders, or to distinguish among types of offenders on a continuum according to strength and exclusivity of pedophilic interest, and motivation for the offense (see child sexual offender types). Exclusive pedophiles are sometimes referred to as "true pedophiles." They are attracted to children, and children only. They show little erotic interest in adults their own age and, in some cases, can only become aroused while fantasizing or being in the presence of prepubescent children.[12] Non-exclusive pedophiles may at times be referred to as non-pedophilic offenders, but the two terms are not always synonymous. Non-exclusive pedophiles are attracted to both children and adults, and can be sexually aroused by both, though a sexual preference for one over the other in this case may also exist.[12]

Where people with a non-exclusive attraction towards children are still referred to as pedophiles. The actual classification criteria for pedophilia, currently, is (from the DSM):

A. Over a period of at least 6 months, recurrent, intense sexually arousing fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors involving sexual activity with a prepubescent child or children (generally age 13 years or younger).

B. The person has acted on these sexual urges, or the sexual urges or fantasies cause marked distress or interpersonal difficulty.

C. The person is at least age 16 years and at least 5 years older than the child or children in Criterion A.

Note: Do not include an individual in late adolescence involved in an ongoing sexual relationship with a 12- or 13- year-old.

There is no requirement of exclusivity or primacy in attraction to children under the medical definition. (I know that the definition currently sets the age at 13, but the current literature has changed this and in the DSM-5 that is about to be released, it has been changed to 11).

[Tero]

Many serial killers have looked fairly normal and have had normal relationships while killing people "as needed."

[MiM]

If the girl is pre-pubescent, she can't get pregnant.

Gallstones etc. where definitely not talking about pre-pubescent boys, when quoting "willing and eager" or if they where, their arguments where mute.

But lets assume that pregnancy is not a consideration, why would it be different for girls?

Why? You cannot take the possibility of pregnancy out of sex. Certainly not if discussing it at a community level. Sex without possible pregnancy, just isn't sex anymore.

[Gallstones]

This is a topic I should stay out of. I have no objective perspective on it and am unable to appreciate that there can be one.

[charlou]

Why? You cannot take the possibility of pregnancy out of sex. Certainly not if discussing it at a community level. Sex without possible pregnancy, just isn't sex anymore.

re the part I've bolded - I disagree ...I'd say it's not reproduction or procreation any more, but it's still sex.

Human sex isn't only about reproduction/procreation, though ... In fact, for many humans, sex is most often for pleasure and/or release of tension, with reproduction/procreation being proportionately less of a motivating factor.

Most other animals are motivated by biology (there are a few species who indulge for pleasure, it seems), not reproduction/procreation, and are not even in conscious control of their activity.


But, yes, the possibility of pregnancy when discussing sex at a community level ... it's one of the most important factors to consider.

[MiM]

charlou, I agree with everything you say there. Obviously my statement was easy to misread. I was still talking about the bigger picture, not personal experience.

[Svartalf]

I think not getting laid for a few years might turn a previously well adjusted person into a rapist? Or would they just masturbate more often and smash dishes?

I can warrant that neither of those is sufficient as a substitute, and that the main reason I'm no rapist is that I'm such a deplorable physical specimen that women I might want to rape have no trouble running away or fighting off my advances.

[mistermack]

Is it possible for a normal person to become a paedophile?

It is possible, but there is a long waiting list.
I would advise putting your name down now.

[charlou]

charlou, I agree with everything you say there. Obviously my statement was easy to misread. I was still talking about the bigger picture, not personal experience.

Thanks, that's what I got ... then kinda lost sight of it on reading the bit I bolded ... hence my response to that, but ... then I acknowledged it on a reread.