Atheism and homosexuality

[normal]

He's not an atheist! He's a very naughty boy!

[The Curious Squid]

I was thinking about this earlier, I don't have anything against people being gay, it's not a lifestyle choice, you don't get to pick if you're gay or straight so what sense is there in writing someone off for something they have no control over? I'm not comparing here but I feel the same towards people with psychological issues that make them hurt themselves or others too, I feel sorry for them rather than angry (probably because I've never been directly effected by someone with a mental illness)

Having said that, I'm a hypocrite since camp people bug the shit out of me. I have no time for queens, I find them too irritating to take seriously and when I'm placed in a situation where I am expected to interact socially with a guy who speaks in such a prissy manner and acts like a complete fairy I can be unfairly rude and intolerable despite my best efforts to remain placid. I'm not proud of that but it's a personality trait that I simply cannot stomach.

[Coito ergo sum]

I was thinking about this earlier, I don't have anything against people being gay, it's not a lifestyle choice, you don't get to pick if you're gay or straight so what sense is there in writing someone off for something they have no control over? I'm not comparing here but I feel the same towards people with psychological issues that make them hurt themselves or others too, I feel sorry for them rather than angry (probably because I've never been directly effected by someone with a mental illness)

Having said that, I'm a hypocrite since camp people bug the shit out of me. I have no time for queens, I find them too irritating to take seriously and when I'm placed in a situation where I am expected to interact socially with a guy who speaks in such a prissy manner and acts like a complete fairy I can be unfairly rude and intolerable despite my best efforts to remain placid. I'm not proud of that but it's a personality trait that I simply cannot stomach.

Hmmm... my reaction has not been that.

I've worked fairly closely in jobs with openly gay people, men and women, and I've never had the slightest negative visceral reaction. I know of no noticeable difference in any relevant quality of a human being. The fact that SOME (probably not even most) might have discernable gayness about them is, to me, completely irrelevant. I don't care if a guy minces about, or lisps, or whatever. But, I think I am more often than not surprised when I learn someone is gay. I just learned the other day that a colleague of mine was gay. I never even suspected - probably because I don't spend much time wondering whether my male friends suck dick or take it in the ass.

[The Curious Squid]

I have a few gay friends and their sexuality has never been an issue between us and slight campness, be it in the way a lot of gay guys move or the stereotypical lisp in themselves don't bother me, it's the false assertiveness and over emphasised idiosyncrasis that annoy me. Fair play if a guy likes other men, why act like such a knobend though? Straight women don't act like that and butch lesbians don't try and act like a two-dimensional stereotype of a man so why dismiss and try to ignore that so many gay guys are obnoxious, loud and metaphorically in your face about it?

[Ameri Boi]

Hi there,

I've been an atheist for 3 or 4 years now, and I find that majority of atheists are either ardent supporters of homosexuality, are homosexuals themselves or don't really care much. In all my years I have found only a hand full of atheists who have had any objection to homosexuality. Why is there a lack of objection to homosexuality within the atheist community?

Also, why are some homosexuals proud of being homosexual? It makes no sense to me, it makes about much sense to me as a disabled person being proud of being disabled.

I have been an Atheist for 4 years, I am gay; For what reason would I be disgusted with who I am, and why should I expect other people whom have made the rational step to abandon religious preconceptions and statutes of prudishness to find my sexual preferences objectionable?

[The Curious Squid]

Nobody mentioned anything about being disgusted, the OP asked "why are some of them proud to be gay" which is a separate question and one that is less commonly discussed.

Personally I don't see why sexuality should encourage pride in anyone, if anything, the fact that it's still such an issue that sexual preference isn't a non-point to society in general is shameful.

[Ameri Boi]

I don't have the excessive pride that the op seems to imagine, I don't wave a rainbow flag everywhere I walk, I've never been to a gay pride rally, and to comment on one's perception of other gay men with lisps, I am hardly feminine and talk like a normal human being.

In short, it is a non-issue for me until someone brings forth an objection.

[The Curious Squid]

Which is exactly how it should be

Having pride in anything from Nationality or skin colour to sexuality or world view is not something I like the necessity for. If people would just reflect on those subjects and realise how unimportant they should be the world wouldn't be as shit as it is.

[virphen]

@ ...idle

You don't have to worry about gangs of gay mean raping you up the arse. Really. It's just bullshit you got told in school by kids who knew no better.

Time to get over it.

[the PC apeman]

Also, why are some homosexuals proud of being homosexual? It makes no sense to me, it makes about much sense to me as a disabled person being proud of being disabled.

There is a significant portion of US society that would have me feel ashamed of my being gay. Expression of pride in being gay is a rejection of that notion. When all the anti-gay voices fade away we'll have completed the current transition to a post-gay world. Only then will such expression of pride be ridiculous.

I don't know how old you are but the progress you see today is relatively new. If you'd walk a mile in my shoes, you might say the progress has a long way yet to go.

EDIT: Looking back I see you were born 26 year ago. That's about when I came out. It was a different world back then and I had it easy compared to those 26 years before that. I hope your children don't have to think twice about identifying as gay.

[Ameri Boi]

@ ...idle

You don't have to worry about gangs of gay mean raping you up the arse. Really. It's just bullshit you got told in school by kids who knew no better.

Time to get over it.

At first I thought your signature was part of your response

[Xamonas Chegwé]

@ ...idle

You don't have to worry about gangs of gay mean raping you up the arse. Really. It's just bullshit you got told in school by kids who knew no better.

Time to get over it.

At first I thought your signature was part of your response

[Hermit]

I see homosexuality as a disability, since there is no evolutionary desire for a homosexual to have sex with a woman and in turn produce off-spring, which is essentially the propose of all living species, i.e. to propagate their genes through asexual/sexual production. For lesbians this is not a problem in the sense as in evolution as rape of females within a species actually has an evolutionary benefit.

You really need to reconsider the notion that if something is natural, it is therefore good. In this particular instance - the purpose, as you put it, to propagate - can be argued to be a very bad thing in terms of the survival of the human species. Our population is rapidly heading toward the 7 billion mark and the most conservative estimate is that it will plateau at just under 11 billion in 2100. Most estimates regarding sustainability indicate that we, as a species, are about to make this planet uninhabitable by sheer weight of numbers. We may be in the process of actually breeding ourselves out of existence. If something is natural, it is not automatically a good thing.

[AshtonBlack]

I see homosexuality as a disability, since there is no evolutionary desire for a homosexual to have sex with a woman and in turn produce off-spring, which is essentially the propose of all living species, i.e. to propagate their genes through asexual/sexual production. For lesbians this is not a problem in the sense as in evolution as rape of females within a species actually has an evolutionary benefit.

You really need to reconsider the notion that if something is natural, it is therefore good. In this particular instance - the purpose, as you put it, to propagate - can be argued to be a very bad thing in terms of the survival of the human species. Our population is rapidly heading toward the 7 billion mark and the most conservative estimate is that it will plateau at just under 11 billion in 2100. Most estimates regarding sustainability indicate that we, as a species, are about to make this planet uninhabitable by sheer weight of numbers. We may be in the process of actually breeding ourselves out of existence. If something is natural, it is not automatically a good thing.

A very good point. As I said, there are, I believe, no actual arguments against homosexuality.

[epepke]

The notion that homosexuality isn't adaptive in an evolutionary sense is pretty ignorant. Although I hate to mention his name, Richard Dawkins concept of the Selfish Gene provides a pretty convincing reason that homosexuality could be selected for in species with tight, long-lasting familial relationships.

Anyway, I'm one of the atheists who do not particularly care, for three reasons:

1) Lacking a religious text to tell me so, I have no particular reason to object to homosexuality.
2) Being a member of two or three despised minorities myself, I have empathy for others.
3) I like to have sex with women. Female homosexuality doesn't seem to be a problem, as many seem rather labile, and if anything, male homosexuality is a boon, as it reduces the number of well dressed gently spoken men who are in a position to compete with me.