The US Healthcare Mass Debate

[rainbow]

Trump will make the Doctor pay for visits to him
http://karireport.blogspot.com/2017/07/ ... isits.html

[L'Emmerdeur]

I apologise for my part in keeping the 'Pocahontas' derail alive. If I had family lore from my mother whom I trusted that said that my family included Indian ancestors several generations back I'd believe her, but I wouldn't be claiming to be Indian, but that's my personal choice. That Elizabeth Warren did so doesn't bother me, and I don't think she's lying or perpetrating a falsehood, or that it was wrong of her. Most importantly there is no evidence that she did so to advance her career in any way.

Forty Two has gone to great lengths to justify Trump's puerile and mean-spirited jibe against Warren and the slander that serves as its basis. In my opinion he has completely failed in his efforts. On the other hand in regard to Warren calling herself 'Native American', she doesn't have solid evidence to support that, and I would call her claim unproved. While there are members of recognised Indian nations who have no more Indian blood than she believes she has, the evidence of their heritage is solid, while hers consists of hearsay no matter how trustworthy she believes it to be. In any event, there isn't any evidence that Warren's claim is unethical, which is the gist of the slander. It's clear that Forty Two wants to believe that the slander is true, and I've concluded that nothing I can say will change that. I should have known better than to try.

[mistermack]

Offer her some beads for her house.

And seal the deal with fire water. It's a foolproof test.

[Feck]

Most of the money that Americans pay for health insurance isn't even spent on making American health insurance companies more profitable it is spent on re-insuring those companies against the legal risks that their policy of not paying out on policies might cost them in legal fees and class actions
My sister worked for a large London Corporate Insurance company that was asked to re-insure several of the largest US companies. She spent 6 months in the US working on the deal ...
US "Health" insurance companies are essentially all fraudulent, their potential risk is greater than their total value. The whole system is FUCKED .. Seriously the details are horrific !!!! not joking. You would have more chance of Insuring a Bacon and Bagel franchise in Saudi Arabia .

[Feck]

Seriously a pig farmer in Aleppo is more likely to get insurance than Any US health care insurance company The government of the US has known this since Nixon .....
No wonder Trump has admitted "It's all a bit more complicated " than he thought

[Tero]

Trump voters sure of one thing but clueless on what they want:
People who don’t like the Affordable Care Act voted overwhelmingly for Trump. Republican policymakers, including President-elect Donald Trump, have vowed to repeal it.

She trusts Trump to dream up something better. “He’s a business person, that’s why we all voted for him,” Kaiser said. “He's been successful all on his own. We need to run this country like a business.” LOL!

They are envious of Medicaid recipients:

I heard this gripe from several people. Their health-care costs are skyrocketing, and meanwhile, there are people on Medicaid, which has its own issues, but looks like the lap of luxury when you have a five-digit deductible.

Etc. They want us to continue giving a gift to doctors and insurance rather than sunsidize anyone.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theatl ... le/511130/

[Animavore]

The level of belief in these people. Trump is like Benny Hinn or Oral Roberts or one of them.

[Feck]

http://khn.org/news/nixon-proposal/
President Richard Nixon’s Special Message to the Congress Proposing a Comprehensive Health Insurance Plan

February 6, 1974

From The American Presidency Project, University of California at Santa Barbara

To the Congress of the United States:

One of the most cherished goals of our democracy is to assure every American an equal opportunity to lead a full and productive life.
Related Content


In the last quarter century, we have made remarkable progress toward that goal, opening the doors to millions of our fellow countrymen who were seeking equal opportunities in education, jobs and voting.

Now it is time that we move forward again in still another critical area: health care.

Without adequate health care, no one can make full use of his or her talents and opportunities. It is thus just as important that economic, racial and social barriers not stand in the way of good health care as it is to eliminate those barriers to a good education and a good job.

Three years ago, I proposed a major health insurance program to the Congress, seeking to guarantee adequate financing of health care on a nationwide basis. That proposal generated widespread discussion and useful debate. But no legislation reached my desk.

Today the need is even more pressing because of the higher costs of medical care. Efforts to control medical costs under the New Economic Policy have been Inept with encouraging success, sharply reducing the rate of inflation for health care. Nevertheless, the overall cost of health care has still risen by more than 20 percent in the last two and one-half years, so that more and more Americans face staggering bills when they receive medical help today:



For the average family, it is clear that without adequate insurance, even normal care can ‘be a financial burden while a catastrophic illness can mean catastrophic debt.

Beyond the question of the prices of health care, our present system of health care insurance suffers from two major flaws :

First, even though more Americans carry health insurance than ever before, the 25 million Americans who remain uninsured often need it the most and are most unlikely to obtain it. They include many who work in seasonal or transient occupations, high-risk cases, and those who are ineligible for Medicaid despite low incomes.

Second, those Americans who do carry health insurance often lack coverage which is balanced, comprehensive and fully protective:

–Forty percent of those who are insured are not covered for visits to physicians on an out-patient basis, a gap that creates powerful incentives toward high cost care in hospitals;
–Few people have the option of selecting care through prepaid arrangements offered by Health Maintenance Organizations so the system at large does not benefit from the free choice and creative competition this would offer;
–Very few private policies cover preventive services;
–Most health plans do not contain built-in incentives to reduce waste and inefficiency. The extra costs of wasteful practices are passed on, of course, to consumers; and
–Fewer than half of our citizens under 65–and almost none over 65–have major medical coverage which pays for the cost of catastrophic illness.

These gaps in health protection can have tragic consequences. They can cause people to delay seeking medical attention until it is too late. Then a medical crisis ensues, followed by huge medical bills–or worse. Delays in treatment can end in death or lifelong disability.

COMPREHENSIVE HEALTH INSURANCE PLAN (CHIP)

Early last year, I directed the Secretary of Health, Education, and Welfare to prepare a new and improved plan for comprehensive health insurance. That plan, as I indicated in my State of the Union message, has been developed and I am presenting it to the Congress today. I urge its enactment as soon as possible.

The plan is organized around seven principles:

First, it offers every American an opportunity to obtain a balanced, comprehensive range of health insurance benefits;

Second, it will cost no American more than he can afford to pay;
Third, it builds on the strength and diversity of our existing public and private systems of health financing and harmonizes them into an overall system;

Fourth, it uses public funds only where needed and requires no new Federal taxes;

Fifth, it would maintain freedom of choice by patients and ensure that doctors work for their patient, not for the Federal Government.

Sixth, it encourages more effective use of our health care resources;

And finally, it is organized so that all parties would have a direct stake in making the system work–consumer, provider, insurer, State governments and the Federal Government.

BROAD AND BALANCED PROTECTION FOR ALL AMERICANS

Upon adoption of appropriate Federal and State legislation, the Comprehensive Health Insurance Plan would offer to every American the same broad and balanced health protection through one of three major programs:

–Employee Health Insurance, covering most Americans and offered at their place of employment, with the cost to be shared by the employer and employee on a basis which would prevent excessive burdens on either;

–Assisted Health Insurance, covering low-income persons, and persons who would be ineligible for the other two programs, with Federal and State government paying those costs beyond the means of the individual who is insured; and,

–An improved Medicare Plan, covering those 65 and over and offered through a Medicare system that is modified to include additional, needed benefits.
One of these three plans would be available to every American, but for everyone, participation in the program would be voluntary.

The benefits offered by the three plans would be identical for all Americans, regardless of age or income. Benefits would be provided for:
–hospital care;
–physicians’ care in and out of the hospital;
–prescription and life-saving drugs;
–laboratory tests and X-rays;
–medical devices;
–ambulance services; and,
–other ancillary health care.

There would be no exclusions of coverage based on the nature of the illness. For example, a person with heart disease would qualify for benefits as would a person with kidney disease.

In addition, CHIP would cover treatment for mental illness, alcoholism and drug addiction, whether that treatment were provided in hospitals and physicians’ offices or in community based settings.

Certain nursing home services and other convalescent services would also be covered. For example, home health services would be covered so that long and costly stays in nursing homes could be averted where possible.

The health needs of children would come in for special attention, since many conditions, if detected in childhood, can be prevented from causing lifelong disability and learning handicaps. Included in these services for children would be:
–preventive care up to age six;
–eye examinations;
–hearing examinations; and,
–regular dental care up to age 13.

Under the Comprehensive Health Insurance Plan, a doctor’s decisions could be based on the health care needs of his patients, not on health insurance coverage. This difference is essential for quality care.

Every American participating in the program would be insured for catastrophic illnesses that can eat away savings and plunge individuals and families into hopeless debt for years. No family would ever have annual out-of-pocket expenses for covered health services in excess of $1,500, and low-income families would face substantially smaller expenses.

As part of this program, every American who participates in the program would receive a Health-card when the plan goes into effect in his State. This card, similar to a credit card, would be honored by hospitals, nursing homes, emergency rooms, doctors, and clinics across the country. This card could also be used to identify information on blood type and .sensitivity to particular drugs-information which might be important in an emergency.

Bills for the services paid for with the Health-card would be sent to the insurance carrier who would reimburse the provider of the care for covered services, then bill the patient for his share, if any.

The entire program would become effective in 1976, assuming that the plan is promptly enacted by the Congress.

HOW EMPLOYEE HEALTH INSURANCE WOULD WORK

Every employer would be required to offer all full-time employees the Comprehensive Health Insurance Plan. Additional benefits could then be added by mutual agreement. The insurance plan would be jointly financed, with employers paying 65 percent of the premium for the first three years of the plan, and 75 percent thereafter. Employees would pay the balance of the premiums. Temporary Federal subsidies would be used to ease the initial burden on employers who face significant cost increases.
They have known since 1974 that desperate measures had to be taken
Mind you Being a Republican and having vested interests in stomping on anything that could be called socialism Nixon then went onto stress how most of the money in his healthcare plan should flow from for- profit insurance companies to private doctors.

[Brian Peacock]

If America needs to be run like a business it doesn't need to be run like one of Trump's business - all about and for him alone.

[pErvinalia]

http://khn.org/news/nixon-proposal/
President Richard Nixon’s Special Message to the Congress Proposing a Comprehensive Health Insurance Plan

February 6, 1974

From The American Presidency Project, University of California at Santa Barbara

To the Congress of the United States:

One of the most cherished goals of our democracy is to assure every American an equal opportunity to lead a full and productive life.
Related Content


In the last quarter century, we have made remarkable progress toward that goal, opening the doors to millions of our fellow countrymen who were seeking equal opportunities in education, jobs and voting.

Now it is time that we move forward again in still another critical area: health care.

Without adequate health care, no one can make full use of his or her talents and opportunities. It is thus just as important that economic, racial and social barriers not stand in the way of good health care as it is to eliminate those barriers to a good education and a good job.

Three years ago, I proposed a major health insurance program to the Congress, seeking to guarantee adequate financing of health care on a nationwide basis. That proposal generated widespread discussion and useful debate. But no legislation reached my desk.

Today the need is even more pressing because of the higher costs of medical care. Efforts to control medical costs under the New Economic Policy have been Inept with encouraging success, sharply reducing the rate of inflation for health care. Nevertheless, the overall cost of health care has still risen by more than 20 percent in the last two and one-half years, so that more and more Americans face staggering bills when they receive medical help today:



For the average family, it is clear that without adequate insurance, even normal care can ‘be a financial burden while a catastrophic illness can mean catastrophic debt.

Beyond the question of the prices of health care, our present system of health care insurance suffers from two major flaws :

First, even though more Americans carry health insurance than ever before, the 25 million Americans who remain uninsured often need it the most and are most unlikely to obtain it. They include many who work in seasonal or transient occupations, high-risk cases, and those who are ineligible for Medicaid despite low incomes.

Second, those Americans who do carry health insurance often lack coverage which is balanced, comprehensive and fully protective:

–Forty percent of those who are insured are not covered for visits to physicians on an out-patient basis, a gap that creates powerful incentives toward high cost care in hospitals;
–Few people have the option of selecting care through prepaid arrangements offered by Health Maintenance Organizations so the system at large does not benefit from the free choice and creative competition this would offer;
–Very few private policies cover preventive services;
–Most health plans do not contain built-in incentives to reduce waste and inefficiency. The extra costs of wasteful practices are passed on, of course, to consumers; and
–Fewer than half of our citizens under 65–and almost none over 65–have major medical coverage which pays for the cost of catastrophic illness.

These gaps in health protection can have tragic consequences. They can cause people to delay seeking medical attention until it is too late. Then a medical crisis ensues, followed by huge medical bills–or worse. Delays in treatment can end in death or lifelong disability.

COMPREHENSIVE HEALTH INSURANCE PLAN (CHIP)

Early last year, I directed the Secretary of Health, Education, and Welfare to prepare a new and improved plan for comprehensive health insurance. That plan, as I indicated in my State of the Union message, has been developed and I am presenting it to the Congress today. I urge its enactment as soon as possible.

The plan is organized around seven principles:

First, it offers every American an opportunity to obtain a balanced, comprehensive range of health insurance benefits;

Second, it will cost no American more than he can afford to pay;
Third, it builds on the strength and diversity of our existing public and private systems of health financing and harmonizes them into an overall system;

Fourth, it uses public funds only where needed and requires no new Federal taxes;

Fifth, it would maintain freedom of choice by patients and ensure that doctors work for their patient, not for the Federal Government.

Sixth, it encourages more effective use of our health care resources;

And finally, it is organized so that all parties would have a direct stake in making the system work–consumer, provider, insurer, State governments and the Federal Government.

BROAD AND BALANCED PROTECTION FOR ALL AMERICANS

Upon adoption of appropriate Federal and State legislation, the Comprehensive Health Insurance Plan would offer to every American the same broad and balanced health protection through one of three major programs:

–Employee Health Insurance, covering most Americans and offered at their place of employment, with the cost to be shared by the employer and employee on a basis which would prevent excessive burdens on either;

–Assisted Health Insurance, covering low-income persons, and persons who would be ineligible for the other two programs, with Federal and State government paying those costs beyond the means of the individual who is insured; and,

–An improved Medicare Plan, covering those 65 and over and offered through a Medicare system that is modified to include additional, needed benefits.
One of these three plans would be available to every American, but for everyone, participation in the program would be voluntary.

The benefits offered by the three plans would be identical for all Americans, regardless of age or income. Benefits would be provided for:
–hospital care;
–physicians’ care in and out of the hospital;
–prescription and life-saving drugs;
–laboratory tests and X-rays;
–medical devices;
–ambulance services; and,
–other ancillary health care.

There would be no exclusions of coverage based on the nature of the illness. For example, a person with heart disease would qualify for benefits as would a person with kidney disease.

In addition, CHIP would cover treatment for mental illness, alcoholism and drug addiction, whether that treatment were provided in hospitals and physicians’ offices or in community based settings.

Certain nursing home services and other convalescent services would also be covered. For example, home health services would be covered so that long and costly stays in nursing homes could be averted where possible.

The health needs of children would come in for special attention, since many conditions, if detected in childhood, can be prevented from causing lifelong disability and learning handicaps. Included in these services for children would be:
–preventive care up to age six;
–eye examinations;
–hearing examinations; and,
–regular dental care up to age 13.

Under the Comprehensive Health Insurance Plan, a doctor’s decisions could be based on the health care needs of his patients, not on health insurance coverage. This difference is essential for quality care.

Every American participating in the program would be insured for catastrophic illnesses that can eat away savings and plunge individuals and families into hopeless debt for years. No family would ever have annual out-of-pocket expenses for covered health services in excess of $1,500, and low-income families would face substantially smaller expenses.

As part of this program, every American who participates in the program would receive a Health-card when the plan goes into effect in his State. This card, similar to a credit card, would be honored by hospitals, nursing homes, emergency rooms, doctors, and clinics across the country. This card could also be used to identify information on blood type and .sensitivity to particular drugs-information which might be important in an emergency.

Bills for the services paid for with the Health-card would be sent to the insurance carrier who would reimburse the provider of the care for covered services, then bill the patient for his share, if any.

The entire program would become effective in 1976, assuming that the plan is promptly enacted by the Congress.

HOW EMPLOYEE HEALTH INSURANCE WOULD WORK

Every employer would be required to offer all full-time employees the Comprehensive Health Insurance Plan. Additional benefits could then be added by mutual agreement. The insurance plan would be jointly financed, with employers paying 65 percent of the premium for the first three years of the plan, and 75 percent thereafter. Employees would pay the balance of the premiums. Temporary Federal subsidies would be used to ease the initial burden on employers who face significant cost increases.
They have known since 1974 that desperate measures had to be taken
Mind you Being a Republican and having vested interests in stomping on anything that could be called socialism Nixon then went onto stress how most of the money in his healthcare plan should flow from for- profit insurance companies to private doctors.

When even the criminally right wing can seem left by today's standards.

[Feck]

Last figures I could find said The USA had the 19th best health- care in the world but the 37th when it came to value for money,
virtually every nation with socialized medicine scored better.
And Trump is going to sort it all out by reversing the tiny tentative steps O'Bama managed to take towards an actual health care system .
Honestly If there were such a thing as karma Donald would slowly rot from drug resistant gonorrhea

[Feck]

Actually if there were such a thing as Karma all Trump voters would get ass-raped by Mexicans with 12" cocks and HIV .

[Scot Dutchy]

Last figures I could find said The USA had the 19th best health- care in the world but the 37th when it came to value for money,
virtually every nation with socialized medicine scored better.
And Trump is going to sort it all out by reversing the tiny tentative steps O'Bama managed to take towards an actual health care system .
Honestly If there were such a thing as karma Donald would slowly rot from drug resistant gonorrhea

How can it have the 19th best health care when at 25 million are not insured. A health care system is for all even the most basic otherwise you cant call it a UHC system.

[Forty Two]

I apologise for my part in keeping the 'Pocahontas' derail alive. If I had family lore from my mother whom I trusted that said that my family included Indian ancestors several generations back I'd believe her,

As a child, maybe. But once I reached the age of reason and beyond, and obtained advanced degrees, including law degrees, I might wonder what mom's "lore" really was. If it's "meemaw said we're Cherokee, even though there's not a single identifiable ancestor in the mix" I might be like "...hey... wait a minute..." before I went ahead and published it as fact.

but I wouldn't be claiming to be Indian, but that's my personal choice. That Elizabeth Warren did so doesn't bother me, and I don't think she's lying or perpetrating a falsehood, or that it was wrong of her. Most importantly there is no evidence that she did so to advance her career in any way.

I wonder why she did it? What possible reason could there be? People usually put stuff in their bios that are favorable and helpful to their career. Irrelevant and negative information is generally edited out. I'm not sure why this information would be any different.

Forty Two has gone to great lengths to justify Trump's puerile and mean-spirited jibe against Warren and the slander that serves as its basis.

I actually stated the exact opposite about him calling her Pocahontas. I have not once sought to justify it. Maybe you're confusing the idea of correctly identifying Elizabeth Warren's defalcations with some sort of justification of Trump's own defalcations.

In my opinion he has completely failed in his efforts.

I failed in an effort I did not make? Not surprising.

On the other hand in regard to Warren calling herself 'Native American', she doesn't have solid evidence to support that, and I would call her claim unproved.

How about "baseless?" Or, "without a shred of objective, verifiable, tangible, or corroborating evidence?"

While there are members of recognised Indian nations who have no more Indian blood than she believes she has, the evidence of their heritage is solid, while hers consists of hearsay no matter how trustworthy she believes it to be. In any event, there isn't any evidence that Warren's claim is unethical, which is the gist of the slander. It's clear that Forty Two wants to believe that the slander is true, and I've concluded that nothing I can say will change that. I should have known better than to try.

It's not slander to say that she's not Native American.

I don't know why you and certain others always have to make discussions personal. You think her lore and cheekbones are sufficient to make her claim to be Native American not unethical because all it is in your mind is "unproven." I think that a professor of law with multiple degrees would know better than to call herself a Native American based on this kind of meemaw lore, which she has to know is insufficient. Genealogists have looked into it, and found no evidence. There is nobody that can be identified. She's not native american.

Now, if you want to get personal about it, I'll just reiterate that I should know better than to think that you'd hold this person to the same standard you'd hold others. However, I think it's pretty clear that if this was Mike Pence, for example, who came out and said, "hey, I'm from Indiana, and my family lore says we're part Indian. And, just look at our high cheekbones, which are what those Indians have..." and tried to then include in his biographical summaries in his government and other employment publications that he was a minority Native American such-and-such - I know for a fact that you'd be all over him like a cheap suit. Come on, wouldn't you? Doesn't it sound like such horseshit, if we put it in Mike Pence's mouth?

[Tero]

Back from GIANT POCAHONTAS DERAIL

Inside Congress and the White House, Republicans are beginning to admit that they’re not likely to be able to pass even a pared-down repeal of the Affordable Care Act, despite months of trying. The conclusion is one that many Republicans in Washington have long privately realized but not publicly discussed much.

As the prospects for the Senate GOP’s Better Care Reconciliation Act have continued to worsen, however, Republicans are openly discussing the idea that they may never be able to agree on a repeal of Obamcare. And it’s an idea that even President Donald Trump is considering.

http://www.salon.com/2017/07/10/donald- ... re-repeal/

However, nothing in ACA requires insurance companies to take part in the plan. It also looks like Americans are not required to buy insurance. Leaves politicians without responsibility to provide any.