You guys and your guns...

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Gawdzilla

In the United States, no matter how you look at it, there is a close relationship between how many people are murdered and how many people own hand guns.

You have pretty much assured me that you do not go along with Seth's madness. Good to see, since we do not need more people sharing that insanity. Would you agree with me that the problem is hand guns? Based on the fact that three quarters of gun ownership in America is sporting rifles, but two thirds of all firearms murders are with hand guns? 8,000 tragic deaths each year, at an all time low?

Hand guns are a problem. They're not a plague, however. In the end, a finger in on the trigger in almost all the shootings.

I used to sleep next to a Mattel gun and a 1911A. Everybody around me was armed, heavily, and they had almost all shown that they could kill other humans. But the only times the weapons were used outside the line of work was when someone suicided. We had discipline and training. If gun safety was taught in the first grade here there would be fewer children shooting each other.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

A question for non-US participants in this thread: How do you rate the portrayal of gun-involved violence in your local entertainment media? (Broad topic, tell me what you think.)

[pErvinalia]

Nothing compared to the US stuff we get. In fact, you don't really see that much gun violence in local entertainment. Well, I should say popular culture-wise. Australian cinema has always had an edgy sector that often involves a lot of violence, but that's not mainstream.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Nothing compared to the US stuff we get. In fact, you don't really see that much gun violence in local entertainment. Well, I should say popular culture-wise. Australian cinema has always had an edgy sector that often involves a lot of violence, but that's not mainstream.

What about imported TV and movies? Especially shoot-em-ups. (Like "Shoot 'em up", with Clive Owen.)

[pErvinalia]

Yeah, I'm saying that local entertainment isn't anywhere near as gun violence focussed/obsessed as US imports (and even some British imports).

eta: But to qualify that, I should say that we probably have more US drama on our TV's than Australian drama (excluding our stupid soap operas). Just about everything australian (and international, for that matter) is reality tv now here. And we certainly have more US movies here than Australian movies.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Yeah, I'm saying that local entertainment isn't anywhere near as gun violence focussed/obsessed as US imports (and even some British imports).

eta: But to qualify that, I should say that we probably have more US drama on our TV's than Australian drama (excluding our stupid soap operas). Just about everything australian (and international, for that matter) is reality tv now here. And we certainly have more US movies here than Australian movies.

If we're going to talk about exposure to gun violence in the media all sources have to be counted. So, barnyard figures, do you 25% as much gun-related violence (GRV from now on), 50%? Best guess, please.

[laklak]

I don't often rise up against tyrants, but when I do I prefer to have a firearm.

[pErvinalia]

Yeah, I'm saying that local entertainment isn't anywhere near as gun violence focussed/obsessed as US imports (and even some British imports).

eta: But to qualify that, I should say that we probably have more US drama on our TV's than Australian drama (excluding our stupid soap operas). Just about everything australian (and international, for that matter) is reality tv now here. And we certainly have more US movies here than Australian movies.

If we're going to talk about exposure to gun violence in the media all sources have to be counted. So, barnyard figures, do you 25% as much gun-related violence (GRV from now on), 50%? Best guess, please.

God, no idea. Without giving it any serious thought, I suppose there might be like half of GVR in australian content compared to the US. But shit, that would be a VERY rough guess and might be totally out. There's definitely less, but how much I don't know. To qualify further, I'm haven't had TV reception or seen many movies for the last 6 months. God knows what's on TV now!

[MrJonno]

A question for non-US participants in this thread: How do you rate the portrayal of gun-involved violence in your local entertainment media? (Broad topic, tell me what you think.)

Brits watch lots of American tv with guns and a lot of British tv has guns as well as lets face it people shooting at each other is exciting on tv but a lot less so in real life.

Of course Dr Who is famous for never having a gun but that hasn't stopped him in a bit of genocide every so often

[Clinton Huxley]

A question for non-US participants in this thread: How do you rate the portrayal of gun-involved violence in your local entertainment media? (Broad topic, tell me what you think.)

I remember when Clegg told Compo he was going to pop a cap in his ass in Last Of The Summer Wine. British TV can be pretty bloodthirsty.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Your "Torchwood" is rather violent, isn't it?

[mistermack]

A question for non-US participants in this thread: How do you rate the portrayal of gun-involved violence in your local entertainment media? (Broad topic, tell me what you think.)

I remember when Clegg told Compo he was going to pop a cap in his ass in Last Of The Summer Wine. British TV can be pretty bloodthirsty.

That's right.
And there were lots of guns in Dad's Army too.

But they kept dropping them.

[Wumbologist]

Wumbo

I do not have to look far to see your fallacy.

Nor I yours. There are guns to be accessed in those nations if people want them, yet for some reason there isn't a problem. Therefore it seems mere access to handguns isn't the issue, and perhaps it's a bit more complicated.

France for example has a gun ownership of less than 5% of the population, of which hand guns are much less, due to regulations. In France, the number of homicides with hand guns is so low it barely registers in the official statistics. The USA has a gun ownership with 33% to 50% of all homes having at least one gun, of which a third are hand guns. In total, the USA has about 300 million guns, with 100 million being hand guns. Clearly you cannot compare France to the USA in terms of gun ownership or gun interest. I predict the same holds for the rest of your list, Wumbo.

Switzerland has a fairly high rate of gun ownership, including handguns. They have quite the lively sport shooting culture. Per capita, they are not all that far from the US in gun ownership, and yet they have very low violent crime rates. Again, you are making a pattern out of one data point and ignoring many confounding factors.

It is also noteworthy that, parallel to the recent drop in numbers of homicides, is a drop in gun ownership in the USA.

Citation needed. Gun sales in the US have been quite high the last few years. Even here in MA with comparatively low rates of ownership compared to other states, every gun shop I go to is busy every time I go there. But it would be inconvenient to your theory if the fact of the matter turned out that the consistent drop in homicide rates over the last few years was, in fact, correlating with an increase in gun ownership, now wouldn't it?

[Wumbologist]

Nothing compared to the US stuff we get. In fact, you don't really see that much gun violence in local entertainment. Well, I should say popular culture-wise. Australian cinema has always had an edgy sector that often involves a lot of violence, but that's not mainstream.

One of the best violent movies of all time (Léon: The Professional) is an English-language French film.

[Seth]

Gawdzilla

In the United States, no matter how you look at it, there is a close relationship between how many people are murdered and how many people own hand guns.

You have pretty much assured me that you do not go along with Seth's madness. Good to see, since we do not need more people sharing that insanity. Would you agree with me that the problem is hand guns? Based on the fact that three quarters of gun ownership in America is sporting rifles, but two thirds of all firearms murders are with hand guns? 8,000 tragic deaths each year, at an all time low?

Correlation is not causation, or had that fact escaped you? And 8000 tragic deaths each year (which number I doubt to begin with) doesn't begin to compare to the 80,000 to two million or more people who are protected by their firearms against criminality. Without those guns, the death toll could be much higher in a nation of 300 million people.