Do you hate Islam ?

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Coito ergo sum
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Re: Do you hate Islam ?

Post by Coito ergo sum » Wed Aug 04, 2010 6:42 pm

Seraph wrote:
Coito ergo sum wrote:One thing we can say about the relative merits of the theocracies is that both were middle ages theocracies at the time. Christianity, however, exited the middle ages a few hundred years ago with a Rennaissance, a Reformation and an Enlightenment. Islam, quite simply, did not.
I certainly grant you that, but I do not conclude from that that therefore islam is therefore inherently more pernicious than christianity.
Nobody that I have read on this thread, and certainly not I, have argued that Islam is "inherently" more pernicious. Inherently or not, right now it is more pernicious.

Let Christianity marry itself to the machinery of the State again, and it will rear an uglier head too. That's the thing about Islam. In countries where there are majority Muslim populations, it seems quite difficult to keep it from gumming up the governmental works.
Seraph wrote:
If and when muslim countries develop economically along similar lines of individual acquisitiveness that occidental societies did, their believers will stop cherrypicking the brutal aspects of the quran and focus on its lovey-dovey ones, just like christians changed their focus in the past couple of hundred years in regard to the bible's content. The bourgeois nature of societies makes such changes irresistible and inevitable.
Let them get to it then. Until then, I hate that fucking skanky religion.

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Re: Do you hate Islam ?

Post by Hermit » Thu Aug 05, 2010 4:16 am

Coito ergo sum, I am happily of the view that it looks like we are fundamentally (heheee) in agreement.
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Re: Do you hate Islam ?

Post by sandinista » Wed Aug 11, 2010 5:48 am

Do I hate islam, hmmm, hate...not sure, I think its more ridiculous than anything. I don't hate it any more than christianity or judaism thats for sure. The world would be better off without any of them.
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Re: Do you hate Islam ?

Post by Tigger » Wed Aug 11, 2010 8:58 am

Yes, just in case anyone forgot my previous post. YES. :allah:
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Re: Do you hate Islam ?

Post by Eriku » Wed Aug 11, 2010 10:39 am

Hate the sin, love the sinner.

Tbh when you grow up in one of the worst educated bits of the world, with Islam forced on you from an early age and very fervently, I understand why it's so easy for most of them to become entrenched in their views. I'm thankful my parents didn't discourage me from reasoning my way out of their faith of choice (Christianity) and into an atheistic mindset, because I DID believe at first, and even more enforcement and fervour from them and I might have been an irrevertible Christian *shudder*

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Re: Do you hate Islam ?

Post by Tigger » Wed Aug 11, 2010 11:30 am

Eriku wrote:Hate the sin, love the sinner.

Tbh when you grow up in one of the worst educated bits of the world, with Islam forced on you from an early age and very fervently, I understand why it's so easy for most of them to become entrenched in their views. I'm thankful my parents didn't discourage me from reasoning my way out of their faith of choice (Christianity) and into an atheistic mindset, because I DID believe at first, and even more enforcement and fervour from them and I might have been an irrevertible Christian *shudder*
I can see the logic in your first line, but when the sinner is entrenched in their belief system, and regards it as part of their unstoppable remit to kill the infidel, I reserve the right to hate the sinner too.
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Re: Do you hate Islam ?

Post by Eriku » Wed Aug 11, 2010 11:38 am

Tigger wrote:
Eriku wrote:Hate the sin, love the sinner.

Tbh when you grow up in one of the worst educated bits of the world, with Islam forced on you from an early age and very fervently, I understand why it's so easy for most of them to become entrenched in their views. I'm thankful my parents didn't discourage me from reasoning my way out of their faith of choice (Christianity) and into an atheistic mindset, because I DID believe at first, and even more enforcement and fervour from them and I might have been an irrevertible Christian *shudder*
I can see the logic in your first line, but when the sinner is entrenched in their belief system, and regards it as part of their unstoppable remit to kill the infidel, I reserve the right to hate the sinner too.
Hostage to a meme. I don't necessarily hate those who are out to kill me, however I do necessarily fear them.

That said, far be it from me to deprive you of your chew toys :D

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Re: Do you hate Islam ?

Post by Tigger » Wed Aug 11, 2010 11:57 am

Eriku wrote:
Tigger wrote:
Eriku wrote:Hate the sin, love the sinner.

Tbh when you grow up in one of the worst educated bits of the world, with Islam forced on you from an early age and very fervently, I understand why it's so easy for most of them to become entrenched in their views. I'm thankful my parents didn't discourage me from reasoning my way out of their faith of choice (Christianity) and into an atheistic mindset, because I DID believe at first, and even more enforcement and fervour from them and I might have been an irrevertible Christian *shudder*
I can see the logic in your first line, but when the sinner is entrenched in their belief system, and regards it as part of their unstoppable remit to kill the infidel, I reserve the right to hate the sinner too.
Hostage to a meme. I don't necessarily hate those who are out to kill me, however I do necessarily fear them.

That said, far be it from me to deprive you of your chew toys :D
I don't understand "Hostage to a meme", although I understand the individual components.
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Re: Do you hate Islam ?

Post by Eriku » Wed Aug 11, 2010 11:58 am

Tigger wrote:
Eriku wrote:
Tigger wrote:
Eriku wrote:Hate the sin, love the sinner.

Tbh when you grow up in one of the worst educated bits of the world, with Islam forced on you from an early age and very fervently, I understand why it's so easy for most of them to become entrenched in their views. I'm thankful my parents didn't discourage me from reasoning my way out of their faith of choice (Christianity) and into an atheistic mindset, because I DID believe at first, and even more enforcement and fervour from them and I might have been an irrevertible Christian *shudder*
I can see the logic in your first line, but when the sinner is entrenched in their belief system, and regards it as part of their unstoppable remit to kill the infidel, I reserve the right to hate the sinner too.
Hostage to a meme. I don't necessarily hate those who are out to kill me, however I do necessarily fear them.

That said, far be it from me to deprive you of your chew toys :D
I don't understand "Hostage to a meme".


Held hostage BY a meme, might be a more appropriate phrasing.

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Re: Do you hate Islam ?

Post by Tigger » Wed Aug 11, 2010 12:05 pm

Eriku wrote:
Tigger wrote:
Eriku wrote:
Tigger wrote:
Eriku wrote:Hate the sin, love the sinner.

Tbh when you grow up in one of the worst educated bits of the world, with Islam forced on you from an early age and very fervently, I understand why it's so easy for most of them to become entrenched in their views. I'm thankful my parents didn't discourage me from reasoning my way out of their faith of choice (Christianity) and into an atheistic mindset, because I DID believe at first, and even more enforcement and fervour from them and I might have been an irrevertible Christian *shudder*
I can see the logic in your first line, but when the sinner is entrenched in their belief system, and regards it as part of their unstoppable remit to kill the infidel, I reserve the right to hate the sinner too.
Hostage to a meme. I don't necessarily hate those who are out to kill me, however I do necessarily fear them.

That said, far be it from me to deprive you of your chew toys :D
I don't understand "Hostage to a meme".


Held hostage BY a meme, might be a more appropriate phrasing.
I still don't get it. Where's the meme?

This is a meme:
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And an apt one too.
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Re: Do you hate Islam ?

Post by Eriku » Wed Aug 11, 2010 12:31 pm

Tigger wrote: I can see the logic in your first line, but when the sinner is entrenched in their belief system, and regards it as part of their unstoppable remit to kill the infidel, I reserve the right to hate the sinner too.
Hostage to a meme. I don't necessarily hate those who are out to kill me, however I do necessarily fear them.

That said, far be it from me to deprive you of your chew toys :D[/quote]

I don't understand "Hostage to a meme".[/quote]

Held hostage BY a meme, might be a more appropriate phrasing.[/quote]

I still don't get it. Where's the meme?

This is a meme:
Image
And an apt one too.[/quote]

It seems I'll have to clarify and edit my position once more... not a meme, but a collection of them, or a memeplex, if you will... I'm in good company with regards to seeing religion this way:
Both Dawkins and Blackmore have described how religions can be defined as memeplexes. It is essential to see the importance of a memeplex such as religion. Such memeplexes do not only find shelter in the mind of a new host, but they will change the perceptions and life of their new host.
http://memetics.chielens.net/memetics/memeplexes.html

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Re: Do you hate Islam ?

Post by charlou » Wed Aug 11, 2010 4:59 pm

You mean the not hated sinner (hate the sin instead) is hostage to a meme. Yes, I agree.
no fences

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Re: Do you hate Islam ?

Post by camoguard » Wed Aug 11, 2010 5:03 pm

There's always a balance between judging a person individually, in this case for having Islamic faith, and being aware of how easy it is to have Islamic faith or to represent said faith in a certain community. In some areas having Islamic faith is a survival mechanism. But, who's tragedy is worse; is it better to relatively allow people to survive in such mindlessness or is it better to honor our forefathers who already paid the price of revolution to put us in the place where we can individually choose our faith and then individually judge people for their own choices?

I get that there are external forces at work. But when viewing Islam and my opinion of it, my opinion is that faith in general is a mistake. My practical nature allows me to interact with more moderate believers. But I hate their belief too.

:mousy:

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Re: Do you hate Islam ?

Post by Xamonas Chegwé » Wed Aug 11, 2010 5:58 pm

Here's a muslim. Somehow I can't see him strapping on a bomb-vest any time soon, nor praising any that do.



God never listened to Charlie Parker
Charlie Parker lived in vain
Blasphemer, womaniser,
Let a needle numb his brain
Wash away his monkey music
Damn his demons, Damn his pain

And what’s the point of Albert Einstein
What do we need Physics for?
Heresy’s his inspiration
Corrupt and rotten to the core
Curse his devious mathematics
Curse his deadly atom war

There’s a message on the wind
Calling me to glory somewhere
There are signs too deep for the dumb
Like perfume in the air
And when I get to Heaven
I won’t realise I’m there

Shakespeare, Isaac Newton
Small ideas for little boys
Adding to the senseless chatter
Adding to the background noise
Hard to hear my oratory
Hard to hear my inner voice

Van gogh, Botticelli
Scraping paint onto a board
Colour is the fuel of madness
That’s no way to praise the Lord
Grey’s the colour of the pious
Knelt upon the misericord

There’s a message on the wind
Calling me to glory somewhere
There are signs too deep for the dumb
Like perfume in the air
And when I get to Heaven
I won’t realise I’m there

I’m familiar with the cover
I don’t need to read the book
I police the world of action
Inside’s where I never look
Got no time to help the worthless
Lotus-eaters, Mandarins, crooks

There’s a message on the wind
Calling me to glory somewhere
There are signs too deep for the dumb
Like perfume in the air
And when I get to Heaven
I won’t realise I’m there
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Re: Do you hate Islam ?

Post by camoguard » Fri Aug 13, 2010 12:47 pm

I'm glad there are people who are reasonable despite their beliefs. Especially since their beliefs make being reasonable more challenging for everyone. I'm not singling out muslims. There's nothing I say about muslims that I wouldn't say about Christians. Legal stoning seems a bit excessive. But more to the point is that I think based on my limited observation that Islamic countries are behind the first world due largely to the form of governments that they use which are blatantly based on Islamic faith. I'm willing to believe that they do not have the only interpretation of Islam, but if having a faith was properly meaningless, then citizens could properly break apart the components of the Quran and take the good parts and recodify only those into something greater if they find they must acknowledge their cultural history.

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