Infinities in science

[surreptitious57]

Regarding the Big Bang : there is no such thing as nothing. Regarding infinity : Infinity only exists as an abstraction and not as a reality since this would be impossible. The Universe may be 13.72 billion years old and 150 billion in diameter, but that is still finite, You will only find infinity in mathematics or theoretical physics. So for example, the number of decimal places that exist between 1 and 2 are infinte. A super computer itself operating for infinity wouldn't be able to calculate the total number. So infinity only exists as a concept, It is not physical.

Mathematics and theoretical physics exist within the universe, even if they deal in abstractions, so the universe contains a hint of infinity even if not the entire thing?

The universe is an infinity, the hint is all around us, anything that is smaller than its total of mass and energy is by definition not infinite because it is bounded by the universe, which as far as we can know is unbounded.

If the Universe was infinite, then it would be incapable of expansion and would freeze to absolute zero.

[Atheist-Lite]

The elephant in the room is our own subjective self-awareness that has blinked into existance a moment and will blink-out again soon enough. Since everything we know about the universe is encompased with a very small amount of temporal time the suspicion is we know close to nothing, our grasp on reality being constrained by a short lived cognitive awareness, and are possibly just random fluctuations on a sea of infinite chance?

[surreptitious57]

Regarding the Big Bang : there is no such thing as nothing. Regarding infinity : Infinity only exists as an abstraction and not as a reality since this would be impossible. The Universe may be 13.72 billion years old and 150 billion in diameter, but that is still finite, You will only find infinity in mathematics or theoretical physics. So for example, the number of decimal places that exist between 1 and 2 are infinte. A super computer itself operating for infinity wouldn't be able to calculate the total number. So infinity only exists as a concept, It is not physical.

Mathematics and theoretical physics exist within the universe, even if they deal in abstractions, so the universe contains a hint of infinity even if not the entire thing?

No. Abstraction and reality are totally different phenomena. They do not co-exist. One is restricted by the laws of physics and one isn't. And there is no such thing as a hint of infinity. That is an oxymoron, Something is real and finite or unreal and infinite. It cannot be both. An infinite Universe wouldn't be capable of supporting life, so we wouldn't exist.

[surreptitious57]

The elephant in the room is our own subjective self-awareness that has blinked into existance a moment and will blink-out again soon enough. Since everything we know about the universe is encompased with a very small amount of temporal time the suspicion is we know close to nothing, our grasp on reality being constrained by a short lived cognitive awareness, and are possibly just random fluctuations on a sea of infinite chance?

The Sun will burn for another 5 billion years. We have only been here 2 - 4 million ourselves.

[Aos Si]

Regarding the Big Bang : there is no such thing as nothing. Regarding infinity : Infinity only exists as an abstraction and not as a reality since this would be impossible. The Universe may be 13.72 billion years old and 150 billion in diameter, but that is still finite, You will only find infinity in mathematics or theoretical physics. So for example, the number of decimal places that exist between 1 and 2 are infinte. A super computer itself operating for infinity wouldn't be able to calculate the total number. So infinity only exists as a concept, It is not physical.

Mathematics and theoretical physics exist within the universe, even if they deal in abstractions, so the universe contains a hint of infinity even if not the entire thing?

The universe is an infinity, the hint is all around us, anything that is smaller than its total of mass and energy is by definition not infinite because it is bounded by the universe, which as far as we can know is unbounded.

If the Universe was infinite, then it would be incapable of expansion and would freeze to absolute zero.

I said it was an infinity, mathematically that is inescapable because it is the set of everything but also is not bound (as far as anyone knows), is it finite yes, is it infinite yes also. Maths says an infinity is something which is numerable but unbound, in the case of set theories that include the universe the literally Universal set and the number of things, or innumerable and unbound in the case of the set of the decimals. The universe slips in on a technicality, it is not what the Greeks would have called an uncountable infinity though they would have called it a countable infinity.

[Aos Si]

The elephant in the room is our own subjective self-awareness that has blinked into existance a moment and will blink-out again soon enough. Since everything we know about the universe is encompased with a very small amount of temporal time the suspicion is we know close to nothing, our grasp on reality being constrained by a short lived cognitive awareness, and are possibly just random fluctuations on a sea of infinite chance?

The Sun will burn for another 5 billion years. We have only been here 2 - 4 million ourselves.

Don't forget though that after about 4 billion years the suns temperature may well be too high to support life without us colonising outer planets or going underground, in fact in just a few hundred million years the suns temperature may well be enough to cause runaway greenhouse effects like those seen on Venus as the sun gets hotter as it burns more of its fuel. Plus shortly before that Andromeda will come crashing together with our Milky Way forming a larger galaxy, the most likely result of this galaxies being so diffuse is some gravitational anomalies and not much else, but its also possible we could get flung out of the galaxy or into the super-massive black hole in the middle, potted like the blue in snooker.

[surreptitious57]

Regarding the Big Bang : there is no such thing as nothing. Regarding infinity : Infinity only exists as an abstraction and not as a reality since this would be impossible. The Universe may be 13.72 billion years old and 150 billion in diameter, but that is still finite, You will only find infinity in mathematics or theoretical physics. So for example, the number of decimal places that exist between 1 and 2 are infinte. A super computer itself operating for infinity wouldn't be able to calculate the total number. So infinity only exists as a concept, It is not physical.

Mathematics and theoretical physics exist within the universe, even if they deal in abstractions, so the universe contains a hint of infinity even if not the entire thing?

The universe is an infinity, the hint is all around us, anything that is smaller than its total of mass and energy is by definition not infinite because it is bounded by the universe, which as far as we can know is unbounded.

If the Universe was infinite, then it would be incapable of expansion and would freeze to absolute zero.

I said it was an infinity, mathematically that is inescapable because it is the set of everything but also is not bound, is it finite yes, is it infinite yes also. Maths says an infinity is something which is numerable but unbound, in the case of set theories that include the universe the literally Universal set and the number of things, or innumerable and unbound in the case of the set of the decimals. The universe slips in on a technicality, it is not what the greeks would call an uncountable infinity though.

And when it reaches equilibrium and stops expanding ? Will you still classify it as unbounded ? Or when it starts regressing ? A conventional view is that the Universe is in a constant state of expansion and contraction and the singularity that caused the Big Bang 13.72 billion years ago is not the first, but one of many that are automatically repeated. The process itself may be infinite but the Universe isn't. If this theory is correct, then it can't be unbounded. Unfortunately the human race may have become extinct before that is proved bryond reasonable doubt.

[Aos Si]

And when it reaches equilibrium and stops expanding ? Will you still classify it as unbounded ? Or when it starts regressing ? A conventional view is that the Universe is in a constant state of expansion and contraction and the singularity that caused the Big Bang 13.72 billion years ago is not the first, but one of many that are automatically repeated. The process itself may be infinite but the Universe isn't. If this theory is correct, then it can't be unbounded. Unfortunately the human race may have become extinct before that is proved bryond reasonable doubt.

Regardless of what the universe does it is still just as infinite as it was after t=0 and it always will be if you see what I mean, it has nothing to have any bound to whether it is a an imponderably small singularity or approaching the infinitely diffuse.

Th universe is considered an unbound infinity by both mathematicians and scientists, a finite one yes, but infinite nonetheless it is probably not wise to get caught up in semantics though. Everything that exists is a technically infinite set to which the null set has no meaning.

However even Einstein was none to sure of the Universe, just as we aren't whatever it is, be it a multiverse or the Universe it is infinite though and probably finite too although I can't know that for sure either.

[Atheist-Lite]

The expansion is speeding up and what if that does not stop? Perhaps a randomly occuring bit of something(the universe) is dispersing into a infinite sea of nothing(the emptiverse)?

[Aos Si]

The expansion is speeding up and what if that does not stop? Perhaps a randomly occuring bit of something(the universe) is dispersing into a infinite sea of nothing(the emptiverse)?

It does not matter what happens it still remains infinite if asymptotically infinitely diffuse and still finite. Most people believe that heat death and gradual attenuation will be the fate of the Universe in fact.

Once time itself begins to grind down as processes are dominated by quantum phenomena, who knows what will happen, maybe that is how this universe was born, from the ashes of another? The Big Bang did after all happen in an inconcievable quantum interaction with approaching infinite gravity in an inconceivably small space.

[surreptitious57]

The elephant in the room is our own subjective self-awareness that has blinked into existance a moment and will blink-out again soon enough. Since everything we know about the universe is encompased with a very small amount of temporal time the suspicion is we know close to nothing, our grasp on reality being constrained by a short lived cognitive awareness, and are possibly just random fluctuations on a sea of infinite chance?

The Sun will burn for another 5 billion years. We have only been here 2 - 4 million ourselves.

Don't forget though that after about 4 billion years the suns temperature may well be too high to support life without us colonising outer planets or going underground, in fact in just a few hundred million years the suns temperature may well be enough to cause runaway greenhouse effects like those seen on Venus as the sun gets hotter as it burns more of its fuel. Plus shortly before that Andromeda will come crashing together with our Milky Way forming a larger galaxy, the most likely result of this galaxies being so diffuse is some gravitational anomalies and not much else, but its also possible we could get flung out of the galaxy or into the super-massive black hole in the middle, potted like the blue in snooker.

Even so, Think of how much we could learn in that time. Eventually we would have to vacate Earth and find equivalent worlds in other solar systems or survive in artificial environments such as space stations.

[surreptitious57]

The expansion is speeding up and what if that does not stop? Perhaps a randomly occuring bit of something(the universe) is dispersing into a infinite sea of nothing(the emptiverse)?

If the expansion is infinite, then the entire Universe freezes to absolute zero and all life will cease to exist.

[Aos Si]

The expansion is speeding up and what if that does not stop? Perhaps a randomly occuring bit of something(the universe) is dispersing into a infinite sea of nothing(the emptiverse)?

If the expansion is infinite, then the entire Universe freezes to absolute zero and nll life will cease to exist.

Indeed although absolute zero as a temperature is forbidden by the uncertainty principle in quantum mechanics, it will approach 0K asymptotically in fact, heat death means that no processes at the chemical or even eventually the atomic level can happen, hence no biochemistry, all process will therefore be mediated by quantum phenomena such as gravitation and electromagnetisms effects which will still exist.

[Aos Si]

The elephant in the room is our own subjective self-awareness that has blinked into existance a moment and will blink-out again soon enough. Since everything we know about the universe is encompased with a very small amount of temporal time the suspicion is we know close to nothing, our grasp on reality being constrained by a short lived cognitive awareness, and are possibly just random fluctuations on a sea of infinite chance?

The Sun will burn for another 5 billion years. We have only been here 2 - 4 million ourselves.

Don't forget though that after about 4 billion years the suns temperature may well be too high to support life without us colonising outer planets or going underground, in fact in just a few hundred million years the suns temperature may well be enough to cause runaway greenhouse effects like those seen on Venus as the sun gets hotter as it burns more of its fuel. Plus shortly before that Andromeda will come crashing together with our Milky Way forming a larger galaxy, the most likely result of this galaxies being so diffuse is some gravitational anomalies and not much else, but its also possible we could get flung out of the galaxy or into the super-massive black hole in the middle, potted like the blue in snooker.

Even so, Think of how much we could learn in that time. Eventually we would have to vacate Earth and find equivalent worlds in other solar systems or survive in artificial environments such as space stations.

Oh yeah the amount of time we still have assuming we never colonise other words is alone inconceivable. In 10,000 years of civilisation we have set foot on another world, in just 100 years we have seen massive advances in technology, in a million of those periods who knows? Quite an exciting time to be alive really, we are quite lucky to know what we do.

[surreptitious57]

The expansion is speeding up and what if that does not stop? Perhaps a randomly occuring bit of something(the universe) is dispersing into a infinite sea of nothing(the emptiverse)?

If the expansion is infinite, then the entire Universe freezes to absolute zero and nll life will cease to exist.

Indeed although absolute zero as a temperature is forbidden by the uncertainty principle in quantum mechanics, it will approach 0K asymptotically in fact, heat death means that no processes at the atomic or chemical level can happen, hence no biochemistry, all process will therefore be mediated by quantum phenomena such as gravitation and electromagnetisms effects which will still exist.

Yes. It would be more accurate to state that it will freeze to a fraction above absolute zero. And while life as we know it will cease to exist, the simplest and most primitive type - bacteria - may not. Experiments have been conducted that demonstrate that it can survive in such extreme environmemts. It has already been discovered in outer space and radioactive matter. Also, helium is the only gas that can't freeze at absolute zero. So it isn't true to state that nothing will survive, but that virtually nothing will, But I was referencing this in general rather than specific terms.