Science Undecided on Room Temperature Superconductors

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Re: Science Undecided on Room Temperature Superconductors

Post by Seth » Fri Jan 08, 2016 5:41 am

rEvolutionist wrote: It was linked little more than a page or two ago. Why does this site attract so many dumb cunts?
You mean this one?
United Nations Security Council Resolution 1441
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
UN Security Council
Resolution 1441
Iraq Kuwait Locator.svg
Map of Iraq (green) and Kuwait (orange).
Date 8 November 2002
Meeting no. 4,644
Code S/RES/1441 (Document)
Subject The situation between Iraq and Kuwait
Voting summary
None voted against
None abstained
Result Unanimously Adopted
Security Council composition
Permanent members


China
France
Russia
United Kingdom
United States

Non-permanent members


Bulgaria
Cameroon
Colombia
Guinea
Ireland
Mexico
Mauritius
Norway
Singapore
Syria

United Nations Security Council Resolution 1441 is a United Nations Security Council resolution adopted unanimously by the United Nations Security Council on 8 November 2002, offering Iraq under Saddam Hussein "a final opportunity to comply with its disarmament obligations" that had been set out in several previous resolutions (Resolution 660, Resolution 661, Resolution 678, Resolution 686, Resolution 687, Resolution 688, Resolution 707, Resolution 715, Resolution 986, and Resolution 1284).[1]

Resolution 1441 stated that Iraq was in material breach of the ceasefire terms presented under the terms of Resolution 687. Iraq's breaches related not only to weapons of mass destruction (WMD), but also the known construction of prohibited types of missiles, the purchase and import of prohibited armaments, and the continuing refusal of Iraq to compensate Kuwait for the widespread looting conducted by its troops during the 1990–1991 invasion and occupation. It also stated that "...false statements or omissions in the declarations submitted by Iraq pursuant to this resolution and failure by Iraq at any time to comply with, and cooperate fully in the implementation of, this resolution shall constitute a further material breach of Iraq's obligations."
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Re: Science Undecided on Room Temperature Superconductors

Post by Seth » Fri Jan 08, 2016 5:41 am

rEvolutionist wrote:
Seth wrote:
rEvolutionist wrote:
JimC wrote:The second gulf war was probably not illegal, and had some ethical justification in terms of Saddam's vicious treatment of the Kurds etc. However, that doesn't change the fact that, after the initial successful blitzkrieg, it was both poorly managed, and had some very bad political consequences for the region.
bullshit, Jim. Your version of what is ethical is not the standard for declaring war and invading another country. If you are worried about the Kurds, you better start calling for an invasion of Turkey.
Circumstantial ad hominem fallacy.
Is that another one of your made up fallacies?! I made no fallacy. I'm simply making the point - "Saddam was an arse" does not make an invasion of his country legal. Anything else is red herring nonsense.
Go read up on circumstantial ad hominem fallacies.
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"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

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Re: Science Undecided on Room Temperature Superconductors

Post by pErvinalia » Fri Jan 08, 2016 5:42 am

Seth wrote:
piscator wrote:The Interstate Commerce Commission? You sound like College Liberal...
Islam generated ISIS. "Illegal war" is a meaningless term without World Police.
International Criminal Court, which unfortunately for rEv's agenda does not have jurisdiction over sovereign nations.
It does for those who signed up to it (i think only the US and NK aren't members). But it can indict US (and British and Ozzy) war criminals and they won't be able to leave the US for fear of being arrested and imprisoned. But that's not going to happen, as there is no morality in this world other than "might makes right".
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Re: Science Undecided on Room Temperature Superconductors

Post by pErvinalia » Fri Jan 08, 2016 5:44 am

Seth wrote:
rEvolutionist wrote: It was linked little more than a page or two ago. Why does this site attract so many dumb cunts?
You mean this one?
United Nations Security Council Resolution 1441
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
UN Security Council
Resolution 1441
Iraq Kuwait Locator.svg
Map of Iraq (green) and Kuwait (orange).
Date 8 November 2002
Meeting no. 4,644
Code S/RES/1441 (Document)
Subject The situation between Iraq and Kuwait
Voting summary
None voted against
None abstained
Result Unanimously Adopted
Security Council composition
Permanent members


China
France
Russia
United Kingdom
United States

Non-permanent members


Bulgaria
Cameroon
Colombia
Guinea
Ireland
Mexico
Mauritius
Norway
Singapore
Syria

United Nations Security Council Resolution 1441 is a United Nations Security Council resolution adopted unanimously by the United Nations Security Council on 8 November 2002, offering Iraq under Saddam Hussein "a final opportunity to comply with its disarmament obligations" that had been set out in several previous resolutions (Resolution 660, Resolution 661, Resolution 678, Resolution 686, Resolution 687, Resolution 688, Resolution 707, Resolution 715, Resolution 986, and Resolution 1284).[1]

Resolution 1441 stated that Iraq was in material breach of the ceasefire terms presented under the terms of Resolution 687. Iraq's breaches related not only to weapons of mass destruction (WMD), but also the known construction of prohibited types of missiles, the purchase and import of prohibited armaments, and the continuing refusal of Iraq to compensate Kuwait for the widespread looting conducted by its troops during the 1990–1991 invasion and occupation. It also stated that "...false statements or omissions in the declarations submitted by Iraq pursuant to this resolution and failure by Iraq at any time to comply with, and cooperate fully in the implementation of, this resolution shall constitute a further material breach of Iraq's obligations."
If that was the one that was linked, then yes. If you read it fully you'll see it explicitly states that Iraq being in violation of that and any other resolutions wasn't a trigger for war.
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Re: Science Undecided on Room Temperature Superconductors

Post by pErvinalia » Fri Jan 08, 2016 5:45 am

Seth wrote:
rEvolutionist wrote:
Seth wrote:
rEvolutionist wrote:
JimC wrote:The second gulf war was probably not illegal, and had some ethical justification in terms of Saddam's vicious treatment of the Kurds etc. However, that doesn't change the fact that, after the initial successful blitzkrieg, it was both poorly managed, and had some very bad political consequences for the region.
bullshit, Jim. Your version of what is ethical is not the standard for declaring war and invading another country. If you are worried about the Kurds, you better start calling for an invasion of Turkey.
Circumstantial ad hominem fallacy.
Is that another one of your made up fallacies?! I made no fallacy. I'm simply making the point - "Saddam was an arse" does not make an invasion of his country legal. Anything else is red herring nonsense.
Go read up on circumstantial ad hominem fallacies.
Once again - " Saddam being an arse" is not legal justification for invasion. It's patently simple.
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Re: Science Undecided on Room Temperature Superconductors

Post by Seth » Fri Jan 08, 2016 5:47 am

rEvolutionist wrote:
Seth wrote:
rEvolutionist wrote: It was linked little more than a page or two ago. Why does this site attract so many dumb cunts?
You mean this one?
United Nations Security Council Resolution 1441
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
UN Security Council
Resolution 1441
Iraq Kuwait Locator.svg
Map of Iraq (green) and Kuwait (orange).
Date 8 November 2002
Meeting no. 4,644
Code S/RES/1441 (Document)
Subject The situation between Iraq and Kuwait
Voting summary
None voted against
None abstained
Result Unanimously Adopted
Security Council composition
Permanent members


China
France
Russia
United Kingdom
United States

Non-permanent members


Bulgaria
Cameroon
Colombia
Guinea
Ireland
Mexico
Mauritius
Norway
Singapore
Syria

United Nations Security Council Resolution 1441 is a United Nations Security Council resolution adopted unanimously by the United Nations Security Council on 8 November 2002, offering Iraq under Saddam Hussein "a final opportunity to comply with its disarmament obligations" that had been set out in several previous resolutions (Resolution 660, Resolution 661, Resolution 678, Resolution 686, Resolution 687, Resolution 688, Resolution 707, Resolution 715, Resolution 986, and Resolution 1284).[1]

Resolution 1441 stated that Iraq was in material breach of the ceasefire terms presented under the terms of Resolution 687. Iraq's breaches related not only to weapons of mass destruction (WMD), but also the known construction of prohibited types of missiles, the purchase and import of prohibited armaments, and the continuing refusal of Iraq to compensate Kuwait for the widespread looting conducted by its troops during the 1990–1991 invasion and occupation. It also stated that "...false statements or omissions in the declarations submitted by Iraq pursuant to this resolution and failure by Iraq at any time to comply with, and cooperate fully in the implementation of, this resolution shall constitute a further material breach of Iraq's obligations."
If that was the one that was linked, then yes. If you read it fully you'll see it explicitly states that Iraq being in violation of that and any other resolutions wasn't a trigger for war.
That's their opinion, which isn't binding on the US or the rest of the Coalition. The legal fact is that ANY material breach of the cease fire agreement fully authorizes resumption of military action, much less 14 of them over 12 years.
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"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

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Re: Science Undecided on Room Temperature Superconductors

Post by Seth » Fri Jan 08, 2016 5:47 am

rEvolutionist wrote: Once again - " Saddam being an arse" is not legal justification for invasion. It's patently simple.
Strawman fallacy.

Oh, and if "don't be an arse" is one of the provisions of the cease fire agreement then his being an arse is most certainly justification for resumption of military action.
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S

"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.

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Re: Science Undecided on Room Temperature Superconductors

Post by pErvinalia » Fri Jan 08, 2016 5:50 am

Seth wrote:
rEvolutionist wrote:
Seth wrote:
rEvolutionist wrote: It was linked little more than a page or two ago. Why does this site attract so many dumb cunts?
You mean this one?
United Nations Security Council Resolution 1441
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
UN Security Council
Resolution 1441
Iraq Kuwait Locator.svg
Map of Iraq (green) and Kuwait (orange).
Date 8 November 2002
Meeting no. 4,644
Code S/RES/1441 (Document)
Subject The situation between Iraq and Kuwait
Voting summary
None voted against
None abstained
Result Unanimously Adopted
Security Council composition
Permanent members


China
France
Russia
United Kingdom
United States

Non-permanent members


Bulgaria
Cameroon
Colombia
Guinea
Ireland
Mexico
Mauritius
Norway
Singapore
Syria

United Nations Security Council Resolution 1441 is a United Nations Security Council resolution adopted unanimously by the United Nations Security Council on 8 November 2002, offering Iraq under Saddam Hussein "a final opportunity to comply with its disarmament obligations" that had been set out in several previous resolutions (Resolution 660, Resolution 661, Resolution 678, Resolution 686, Resolution 687, Resolution 688, Resolution 707, Resolution 715, Resolution 986, and Resolution 1284).[1]

Resolution 1441 stated that Iraq was in material breach of the ceasefire terms presented under the terms of Resolution 687. Iraq's breaches related not only to weapons of mass destruction (WMD), but also the known construction of prohibited types of missiles, the purchase and import of prohibited armaments, and the continuing refusal of Iraq to compensate Kuwait for the widespread looting conducted by its troops during the 1990–1991 invasion and occupation. It also stated that "...false statements or omissions in the declarations submitted by Iraq pursuant to this resolution and failure by Iraq at any time to comply with, and cooperate fully in the implementation of, this resolution shall constitute a further material breach of Iraq's obligations."
If that was the one that was linked, then yes. If you read it fully you'll see it explicitly states that Iraq being in violation of that and any other resolutions wasn't a trigger for war.
That's their opinion, which isn't binding on the US or the rest of the Coalition. The legal fact is that ANY material breach of the cease fire agreement fully authorizes resumption of military action, much less 14 of them over 12 years.
"Opinion"?? :funny: WTF are you on about. IT WAS PART OF THE FUCKING RESOLUTION. And YOUR opinion is supposedly more authorative than THE ACTUAL RESOLUTION ITSELF?? :fp:
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Re: Science Undecided on Room Temperature Superconductors

Post by pErvinalia » Fri Jan 08, 2016 5:52 am

Seth wrote:
rEvolutionist wrote: Once again - " Saddam being an arse" is not legal justification for invasion. It's patently simple.
Strawman fallacy.

Oh, and if "don't be an arse" is one of the provisions of the cease fire agreement then his being an arse is most certainly justification for resumption of military action.
Nup. That's the exact quality of argument that Jim and Pisci are making. Saddam cracked down on his own people. That is not a trigger for invasion. Even a mad psychopath like you should understand that.
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Re: Science Undecided on Room Temperature Superconductors

Post by piscator » Fri Jan 08, 2016 6:28 am


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Re: Science Undecided on Room Temperature Superconductors

Post by pErvinalia » Fri Jan 08, 2016 6:32 am

...
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Re: Science Undecided on Room Temperature Superconductors

Post by Seth » Fri Jan 08, 2016 6:40 am

rEvolutionist wrote: "Opinion"?? :funny: WTF are you on about. IT WAS PART OF THE FUCKING RESOLUTION. And YOUR opinion is supposedly more authorative than THE ACTUAL RESOLUTION ITSELF?? :fp:
Yes, their opinion. UN resolutions are not binding documents upon the US's right or ability to wage war, much less its right to consider material breaches of the cease fire agreement Saddam signed to be sufficient justification for resumption of military actions.
U.S. Cites 1991 U.N. Cease-Fire Resolution as the Legal Basis for Its Invasion
March 21, 2003|From Reuters

UNITED NATIONS — The United States gave its official reasons for invading Iraq to the U.N. Security Council late Thursday, saying Baghdad had broken a cease-fire resolution adopted after the 1991 Persian Gulf War.

Britain and Australia, two other nations in the U.S.-led coalition, wrote similar, shorter, letters to the 15-member council. None of the letters mentioned "regime change," an aim of the invasion but never authorized in any council resolution.

U.S. Ambassador John D. Negroponte described the military operations as "substantial" to secure compliance of Iraq's disarmament obligations under a series of council resolutions. Those measures include Resolution 1441, adopted Nov. 8, which gave Iraqi President Saddam Hussein one last chance to disarm.

"The government of Iraq decided not to avail itself of its final opportunity under Resolution 1441 and has clearly committed additional violations," Negroponte said.
We don't have to go begging the UN to undertake military actions against an enemy who has broken the agreement under which we suspended such actions in the first place.
Iraq accepts U.N.'s terms for cease-fire Strict conditions to be met before allies withdraw WAR IN THE GULF
April 07, 1991|By Alan Cowell | Alan Cowell,New York Times News Service

AMMAN, Jordan -- Five weeks after the United States and it allies drove Iraqi President Saddam Hussein's army from Kuwait, Iraq said yesterday that it will accept United Nations terms for a formal cease-fire in the Persian Gulf war.

In accepting the conditions, the National Assembly in Baghdad, which follows Mr. Hussein's dictates, called the arrangement "unjust," but it acknowledged that Iraq had little choice if it was to avert further degradation.

The message of Iraqi acceptance was delivered in New York to the offices of the U.N. secretary-general and to the chairman of the Security Council by the Iraqi representative at the United Nations, Abdul Amir al-Anbari. He told reporters that Iraq

accepted the terms "without conditions" but added that he considered the resolution "one-sided and unfair."

[Kuwait's ambassador to the United Nations, Mohammad Abulhasan, said he was worried the letter contains too many conditions and said he will ask the Security Council to reject it, the Associated Press reported. Mr. Abulhasan did not specify what problems he had with the Iraqi letter.]

Under the terms of the resolution, adopted Wednesday, the Iraqi acceptance automatically activates a permanent cease-fire between the opponents in the gulf war. But the Pentagon did not immediately issue orders to U.S. forces in the Persian Gulf region proclaiming a formal end to hostilities.

A White House spokesman, Roman Popadiuk, said the Bush administration was waiting for formal notification from the United Nations.

The Iraqi acceptance clears the way for a series of steps to ensure the peace. Those include the establishment of a U.N. peacekeeping force, the destruction of Iraq's biological and chemical weapons and its long-range missiles, and the payment of Iraqi reparations to Kuwait for damage suffered after the invasion Aug. 2.

The acceptance sets in motion the 120-day timetable for carrying out those steps -- spelled out in Security Council Resolution 687, the measure adopted Wednesday.

Following the schedule, Secretary-General Javier Perez de Cuellar presented a plan yesterday for sending a U.N. military observer force to monitor a demilitarized zone along the Iraq-Kuwait border.

As soon as the secretary-general certifies that this force has been successfully deployed, Resolution 687 provides for the allies to complete their withdrawal from the zone they occupy in southern Iraq.

U.N. officials said that they expected the Security Council to approve the proposed force tomorrow or Tuesday.

Yesterday's action in Baghdad will also clear the way for the eventual end to the economic embargo against Iraq.

The formal acceptance of the cease-fire comes a day before Secretary of State James A. Baker III is to arrive in the Middle

East for a new round of talks with regional leaders.

The Iraqi acceptance is a major diplomatic milestone in the campaign begun by the United States and its allies last August to expel Iraqi forces from Kuwait and strip Mr. Hussein of the military power that made his army the most feared in the Arab world.

But the allied campaign against Mr. Hussein has not ended the Iraqi leader's hold on power. He still appears firmly in control, and his army has apparently quashed rebellions by Kurds in the north of Iraq and Shiite Muslim dissidents in the south.

The vote in the 250-seat Iraqi parliament accepting the Security Council resolution was said by Iraqi officials to be 160-31, although the numbers, like the assembly itself, represent little more than window-dressing for decisions of the the Supreme Revolutionary Command Council, which met under Mr. Hussein's chairmanship last night.

"While declaring that this resolution is unjust, they have found there was no other choice than to accept it in order to defeat the American-Zionist plot," said parliamentary Speaker Saadi Mehdi Saleh, referring to what Baghdad depicts as an American and Israeli plot to destroy Iraq.

Drawing on Koranic texts, he said, "We must sometimes, for our own good, accept that which displeases us."

The allied air war that preceded the ground offensive into Iraq and Kuwait in late February destroyed much of Iraq's infrastructure -- including roads, bridges, oil refineries, water-purification plants, electricity-generating stations and communications networks.

To rebuild them and thus try to restore the regime's credibility, Iraq needs to free itself of the economic and other sanctions imposed after Baghdad's invasion of Kuwait.

But Security Council Resolution 687 makes economic regeneration conditional on the destruction of Baghdad's chemical, biological and nuclear weapons potential under U.N. supervision.

Until those capabilities are destroyed, the trade embargo remains in force.
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Re: Science Undecided on Room Temperature Superconductors

Post by pErvinalia » Fri Jan 08, 2016 6:44 am

tl;dr. You are members of the UN. You don't get to pick and choose which resolutions you follow (even though you and Israel do just that). The US, Russia and China should contribute to a proper functioning UN or just get the fuck out of the organisation. This pantomime where countries selectively respect resolutions is ridiculous.
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Re: Science Undecided on Room Temperature Superconductors

Post by Seth » Fri Jan 08, 2016 6:44 am

rEvolutionist wrote:
Seth wrote:
rEvolutionist wrote: Once again - " Saddam being an arse" is not legal justification for invasion. It's patently simple.
Strawman fallacy.

Oh, and if "don't be an arse" is one of the provisions of the cease fire agreement then his being an arse is most certainly justification for resumption of military action.
Nup. That's the exact quality of argument that Jim and Pisci are making. Saddam cracked down on his own people. That is not a trigger for invasion. Even a mad psychopath like you should understand that.
Go fuck yourself rEv.

Anyway, it wasn't Saddam's cracking down on his own people that triggered our resumption of military action, it was his violations of the cease fire agreement. But, if not cracking down on his own people were one of the requirements of the cease fire agreement, then his violation of that provision would be justification for resuming military actions.

A cease fire agreement is an agreement, and whatever is agreed to, no matter how much you might think it's not important or justifiable, is what is agreed to and is therefore an enforceable provision. If the agreement says Saddam shall walk through Baghdad on weekend afternoons wearing a clown suit and a red nose while chanting "I'm a despotic tyrant" that's what Saddam would damned well have to do to avoid us ramming a Hellfire up his ass.

Doesn't matter what you think about it, all that matters is what Saddam agreed to do and then repeatedly failed and refused to do.
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"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

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Re: Science Undecided on Room Temperature Superconductors

Post by Seth » Fri Jan 08, 2016 6:48 am

rEvolutionist wrote:tl;dr. You are members of the UN. You don't get to pick and choose which resolutions you follow (even though you and Israel do just that).
Yes, actually we do. The UN is a voluntary organization in case you had forgotten, or more likely never know that fact.
The US, Russia and China should contribute to a proper functioning UN or just get the fuck out of the organisation.
I'm all for them, and us getting the fuck out of the organization. But until then we'll ignore it whenever it pleases us, in our capacity as a sovereign nation beholden to no one and under the authority, power or control of no one, especially members of the UNSC which is about as big a farce as I've ever seen.

This pantomime where countries selectively respect resolutions is ridiculous.
Yes, it is, which is why we largely ignore the UN when it annoys us or gets in our way, which we as a sovereign and independent nation have an absolute right and moral justification to do.
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S

"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

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