Re: Unarmed teen shooting: the debate trickles on...

[Seth]

I'm not a 16 year old teenager. I try to avoid urban teenagers. My 100 dollars in my pocket is too much a temptation for them.

So these people in the gated community could all walk around with concealed weapons interrogating each other? Sounds like a plan. Then at least we would have a few armed patriots shooting each other as burglars. Less patriots around to shoot me.

Yup, they could do exactly that. People who live in gated communities usually get to know one another and they also take it upon themselves to keep an eye on the community and help each other out.

If Martin had said "I'm visiting my father's place over on Whatever Road" and then walked away and STAYED AWAY he would be alive today.

He didn't. The evidence indicates that he took umbrage at being approached and questioned and decided, AFTER breaking contact with Zimmerman, to RETURN to Zimmerman's location and attack him. In other words, Martin initiated the attack that got him killed, not Zimmerman.

[Seth]

Well we don't know what was said. We know Z had a gun in his pocket. It affected the way he communicated. Two guards, both armed, can approach a suspect, get the info and calm down the sitution without guns. One male, untrained, cannot.

Without a gun then and now, Z would still be in his truck looking for evil doers in his gated community.

Or he'd be dead.

The point is that Zimmerman has no obligation to disarm himself as he's legally licensed to carry a concealed weapon. And whether or not his carrying a gun contributed to his sense of safety while acting as a security guard for the community, whether by contract or not, is not relevant. As a member of the community he has every right to act as a "security guard" by watching for and following strangers around because that authority exists with EVERYONE, as CES says, even people who are not community members.

The problem was not Zimmerman's approach or questioning of Martin, it was Martin's violent response to being approached and questioned, and that's what got him killed.

I'd have killed him too if he'd done that to me.

[laklak]

I try to avoid urban teenagers. My 100 dollars in my pocket is too much a temptation for them.

A good argument for concealed carry, IMO.

[Seth]

Absolutely. Gun on your belt makes you the alpha male. He had a visible holster:

So what? He has a right to be an "alpha male" in his own community...or anywhere else for that matter. His acting like an "alpha male" doesn't justify Martin's violent attack upon him AFTER the two had broken contact.

Within eight minutes, Mr. Martin was dead from a gunshot wound to the chest, his body crumpled on a stretch of grass behind a row of town houses. When the first officer arrived at 7:17, Mr. Zimmerman was waiting not far from the body. He raised his hands in surrender before relinquishing his 9-millimeter pistol from the holster in his waistband.

Absolutely perfect and correct response for a CCW permit holder who has had to discharge his firearm. Doing so keeps you from getting shot by the police. I'd have gone one step further and when the police came in visual range I would have proned out.

Google for source.

Why? I don't disbelieve you. What Zimmerman did after shooting Martin was perfectly correct.

[Tero]

That was me with the 100 not Seth.

[Seth]

I try to avoid urban teenagers. My 100 dollars in my pocket is too much a temptation for them.

A good argument for concealed carry, IMO.

Misattribution. Somebody else wrote that, but I agree with the sentiment. Staying away from trouble is always better than having to deal with trouble. That's what situational awareness is all about.

[Jason]

Untrained security dude approaches a person, who must at first assumption be assumed a resident or guest. He is not burgling. You say in a threatening voice: What are YOU doing here?

Very professional. Not likely to defuse the situation. If it were me I would answer: And who the hell are you?

See? He wasn't doing a good job.

Sounds like he was doing his job exactly. That's how guards are trained to approach suspicious persons in secured areas. They know who are residents and guests - at least they're supposed to.

[laklak]

I try to avoid urban teenagers. My 100 dollars in my pocket is too much a temptation for them.

A good argument for concealed carry, IMO.

Misattribution. Somebody else wrote that, but I agree with the sentiment. Staying away from trouble is always better than having to deal with trouble. That's what situational awareness is all about.

Sorry Seth, I knew it was Tero but I fucked up the quote. Fixed now.

[Jason]

I try to avoid urban teenagers. My 100 dollars in my pocket is too much a temptation for them.

A good argument for concealed carry, IMO.

Misattribution. Somebody else wrote that, but I agree with the sentiment. Staying away from trouble is always better than having to deal with trouble. That's what situational awareness is all about.

Shit. I walk through a group of crips. If anyone makes any kind of move, I pull out my chrome .45 and talk some shit. Punkass bitches.

[Jason]

I try to avoid urban teenagers. My 100 dollars in my pocket is too much a temptation for them.

A good argument for concealed carry, IMO.

Misattribution. Somebody else wrote that, but I agree with the sentiment. Staying away from trouble is always better than having to deal with trouble. That's what situational awareness is all about.

Sorry Seth, I knew it was Tero but I fucked up the quote. Fixed now.

[laklak]

Shit. I walk through a group of crips. If anyone makes any kind of move, I pull out my chrome .45 and talk some shit. Punkass bitches.

Now you're starting to sound like mrjonno and blind grouper.

[Jason]

Eh? Oh yeah.. I guess so. But I'm actually joking, they think that's an accurate representation of real life in America.

[laklak]

You mean it's not? That's a relief, I can stop carrying that hog leg around, it was starting to chafe. Plus I'm having a hard time sourcing powder bags for the 16 inchers.

[Jason]

Well.. TBH.. every time I visit America I come back home with the distinct feeling I've just been to the world's largest lincoln log with sparkles and sprinkles on it. But I've never been in fear for my life while there, and I've spent a lot of time in Detroit.

[laklak]

Detroit was OK even in the early 90s, though I didn't wander around 8 Mile. Looks pretty grim now, from all accounts.

I live in Stand Your Ground State and I've never seen a Wild West shootout or feared for my safety. But I also don't wander around our equivalent to 8 Mile. I do keep my powder dry, however.