US intelligence agencies lying about Iran?

[JimC]

this casting of Israel as the aggressor is laughable -

Not casing it is as the aggressor is laughable its a European/American settler state dedicated to genocide. Never mind wanting to wipe a people out Likud doesn't even recognise the existence of the Palestinians and unlike Iran actually has the ability to carry it out. The threat of mutually assured destruction is exactly what is required to ever make any progress there

LOL - dedicated to genocide -- but, it doesn't commit genocide, and the Arabs openly call for genocide of the Jews, and have started several wars trying to accomplish it, and even have flags with mushroom clouds on them to representing nuking Israel....

The Palestinians don't recognize the existence of Israel dude. The only parties dedicated to genocide here are the fucking Arab Muslims. That's why they tried to obliterate Israel several times.

Lord -- there is no end to folks ignoring history and just making shit up. Genocide? By ISRAEL? Where do you even get that from? Maybe it's just more Euro Jew-baiting.

I hold no brief for Hamas militants and islamic terrorists, but we need to a little less one sided about Israel. Their settlement program, and constant rolling pogroms against arabs within the territory they contain is morally indefensible. It, just as much as Palestinian intransigence over the right of Israel to exist, is helping to maintain the current stalemate.

[MrJonno]

I hold no brief for Hamas militants and islamic terrorists, but we need to a little less one sided about Israel. Their settlement program, and constant rolling pogroms against arabs within the territory they contain is morally indefensible. It, just as much as Palestinian intransigence over the right of Israel to exist, is helping to maintain the current stalemate.

Hamas don't recognise the right of Israel to exist which is foolish, but Israel government doest even recognise the Palestinians as actually existing

[Coito ergo sum]

this casting of Israel as the aggressor is laughable -

Not casing it is as the aggressor is laughable its a European/American settler state dedicated to genocide. Never mind wanting to wipe a people out Likud doesn't even recognise the existence of the Palestinians and unlike Iran actually has the ability to carry it out. The threat of mutually assured destruction is exactly what is required to ever make any progress there

LOL - dedicated to genocide -- but, it doesn't commit genocide, and the Arabs openly call for genocide of the Jews, and have started several wars trying to accomplish it, and even have flags with mushroom clouds on them to representing nuking Israel....

The Palestinians don't recognize the existence of Israel dude. The only parties dedicated to genocide here are the fucking Arab Muslims. That's why they tried to obliterate Israel several times.

Lord -- there is no end to folks ignoring history and just making shit up. Genocide? By ISRAEL? Where do you even get that from? Maybe it's just more Euro Jew-baiting.

I hold no brief for Hamas militants and islamic terrorists, but we need to a little less one sided about Israel. Their settlement program, and constant rolling pogroms against arabs within the territory they contain is morally indefensible. It, just as much as Palestinian intransigence over the right of Israel to exist, is helping to maintain the current stalemate.

Pogroms? Really? Have you seen the Arab Muslim population of Israel? They live, work and thrive in Israel. If there were a pogrom, why is the population of Arab-Muslims in Israel rising? In 2006, the Arab population of Israel represented 20% of Israel's total population. Arabs are members of the Knesset.

I think that certain words - like genocide and pogrom - used in relation to Israel's conduct is way over the top -- there are no pogroms and there is no genocide by Israel against Arabs.

[Coito ergo sum]

I hold no brief for Hamas militants and islamic terrorists, but we need to a little less one sided about Israel. Their settlement program, and constant rolling pogroms against arabs within the territory they contain is morally indefensible. It, just as much as Palestinian intransigence over the right of Israel to exist, is helping to maintain the current stalemate.

Hamas don't recognise the right of Israel to exist which is foolish, but Israel government doest even recognise the Palestinians as actually existing

That isn't true. The Israeli government has treaties with the Palestinians. Of course they recognize the Palestinians as existing. Israel does not recognize Palestine as a separate state, yet, but neither does the United Nations.

[MrJonno]

Is Likud doesn't recognise the existence of a Palestinian state why should the Palestinians recognise Israel?

The entire basis of any support for Israel is basically the Christian right, anywhere else they are a pariah state

[Coito ergo sum]

Is Likud doesn't recognise the existence of a Palestinian state why should the Palestinians recognise Israel?

Well, let me think....hmmmm....

Could it be that NOBODY on the planet recognizes the existence of a Palestinian State, yet, and that there is not, in fact, a Palestinian State at present?

And, why should the Palestinians recognize Israel? I guess for the same reason they recognize Jordan. Israel is a country - a State.

The entire basis of any support for Israel is basically the Christian right, anywhere else they are a pariah state

Nonsense.

In many places in Europe, this nonsense is spewed because of rampant Jew-hatred there. You want to look for pogroms and genocide -- look in the Yerpeein backyard. If anyone knows how to do a pogrom and genocide, it's Europeans.

[MrJonno]

European experience of genocide is why the Israeli government has few friends, then again maybe the US has forgotten what it did to its own natives.

Thinking about it the the US was formed in the same way as Israel ,white Europeans exterminating the locals so maybe that is why they are so sympathetic .

As for Palestinian recognition 131 out of 191 nations in the world have recognised it, Likud have stated they never would

[Coito ergo sum]

European experience of genocide is why the Israeli government has few friends, then again maybe the US has forgotten what it did to its own natives.

The US was moderately better toward its natives as the Brits, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Germans and Dutch were to the natives of about 4/5ths of the world's land mass.

Thinking about it the the US was formed in the same way as Israel ,white Europeans exterminating the locals so maybe that is why they are so sympathetic .

Well, this is demonstrably false in the case of Israel. You're missing a fairly sizable chunk of your argument when you fail to show that there has been any sort of extermination.

As for Palestinian recognition 131 out of 191 nations in the world have recognised it, Likud have stated they never would

The Palestinian Territories is a nonmember observer state, like the Vatican.

The Israelis generally have a problem recognizing the Palestinian Territories as a State, because the Palestinians generally see Israel as being included within the borders of any Palestinian State.

[MrJonno]

Ethnic cleansing, dispersal of a people throughout the world, denial that a people exist using by calling then 'Arabs' is genocide

As for the Palestine being recognised by 2/3rd of the world as a state the only reason its not recognised by the UN as a full member is the US veto

[Coito ergo sum]

Ethnic cleansing,

None. Well, the Palestinians say they want to ethnically cleanse Israel, but thus far they have been unsuccessful. The Israelis do not openly favor ethnic cleansing, nor has there been any.

dispersal of a people throughout the world,

You mean the Jews in the diaspora? Or, do you mean the Lebanese Christians who were driven out of Lebanon by the Muslim factions in that country?

denial that a people exist using by calling then 'Arabs' is genocide

"denial" is not genocide - and they are Arabs. It's not wrong to call them Arabs. They ARE Arabs. And, so are the Jordanians. Look -- there never was a country called Palestine. It was a region. It was a region of the Ottoman Empire, and there were no Iraqis, Jordanians or Syrians, not in terms of nationality -- they were Arabs. After World War 1, the area had to be split up and occupied by the French and the British -- for the first time, countries like Lebanon, Jordan and Iraq came into being. Israel too.

As for the Palestine being recognised by 2/3rd of the world as a state the only reason its not recognised by the UN as a full member is the US veto

Doesn't change anything. There has been no genocide. There has been no extermination. And, only one side says they want that to happen -- that's the Arabs.

[JimC]

Coito ergo sum wrote:

Pogroms? Really? Have you seen the Arab Muslim population of Israel? They live, work and thrive in Israel. If there were a pogrom, why is the population of Arab-Muslims in Israel rising? In 2006, the Arab population of Israel represented 20% of Israel's total population. Arabs are members of the Knesset.

I think that certain words - like genocide and pogrom - used in relation to Israel's conduct is way over the top -- there are no pogroms and there is no genocide by Israel against Arabs.

Then you clearly haven't read the copious and continual reports from a variety of news agencies about the destruction of arab settlements by Jewish settlers, often aided (or at least ignored) by the Israeli armed forces. The settlement program is steadily eating away at the remaining arab villages and small farms within Israeli owned territory, and this remains a running, festering sore in Israeli-Arab relations.

One can recognise and deplore this without feeling at all compelled to side with Palestinian terrorists. But it's head in the sand time to ignore the very real faults of the Israeli government.