Trump, the man with a dream of a Wall

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Re: Trump, the man with a dream of a Wall

Post by Hermit » Sat Feb 03, 2018 1:53 am

Forty Two wrote:Image
Wrong again. Bill Clinton did not say we must "deport illegal immigrants already here". He did say"we must do more to stop it", "it" being "the kind of abuse of our immigration laws we have seen in recent years". When he did speak of deportation, he did not target illegal immigrants as such. He targeted illegal immigrants who had been convicted of criminal offences.

While there are areas of agreement about immigration between Clinton and Trump it cannot be said their policies were basically identical, which is what your lying picture is trying to say.
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Re: Trump, the man with a dream of a Wall

Post by Tero » Sat Feb 03, 2018 2:16 am

It might have been possible to deport a good number in 1995. It is no longer possible. You would never catch them all. It’s not a crime where you can authorize agents to shoot escaping illegals. You have to catch and (at our cost) deport them.

A pardon every 20-30 years is all we can manage. Only Republican presidents can sign those.

Luckily the stream of illegals is less and less. Eventually we will beg for them to come and pick our crops as guest workers. They will just drive in by then.

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Re: Trump, the man with a dream of a Wall

Post by Tero » Sat Feb 03, 2018 4:03 am

Man successfully impersonating US president for a year thinks FBI, hot on his heels to expose him, is ”terrible.”
https://www.npr.org/2018/02/02/58266676 ... nunes-memo

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Re: Trump, the man with a dream of a Wall

Post by Brian Peacock » Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:26 am

Hermit wrote:
Forty Two wrote:Image
Wrong again. Bill Clinton did not say we must "deport illegal immigrants already here". He did say"we must do more to stop it", "it" being "the kind of abuse of our immigration laws we have seen in recent years". When he did speak of deportation, he did not target illegal immigrants as such. He targeted illegal immigrants who had been convicted of criminal offences.

While there are areas of agreement about immigration between Clinton and Trump it cannot be said their policies were basically identical, which is what your lying picture is trying to say.
The lying picture is also trying to say that if you're a Democrat or a Democrat supporter you're also an automatic hypocrite: that hypocrisy is the default quality of Democrats, and thus any criticism can be instantly dismissed on he grounds that it is an invalidating, malign, two-faced Democrat criticism.

But the lying image isn't aimed at showing Democrats they're wrong, but in bolstering the already held views of the right. It's the political equivalent of lying for Jesus.
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: Trump, the man with a dream of a Wall

Post by Tero » Sat Feb 03, 2018 4:12 pm

Elsewhere:
A said:
The Dow Jones Industrial Average dropped 666 points today.

B responded:
I wonder if that means anything.
Stock Markets reflect future expectations - and what more than the massive tax cuts can the market expect from this administration? Only the most bullish investors expect the GOP to successfully reintroduce slavery.

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Re: Trump, the man with a dream of a Wall

Post by L'Emmerdeur » Sat Feb 03, 2018 5:22 pm

Brian Peacock wrote:The lying picture is also trying to say that if you're a Democrat or a Democrat supporter you're also an automatic hypocrite: that hypocrisy is the default quality of Democrats, and thus any criticism can be instantly dismissed on he grounds that it is an invalidating, malign, two-faced Democrat criticism.

But the lying image isn't aimed at showing Democrats they're wrong, but in bolstering the already held views of the right. It's the political equivalent of lying for Jesus.
While this criticism can more or less be levied at supporters of both parties, the 'other party isn't really legitimate' mode of thinking is definitely stronger on the Republican side, enhanced by the Tea Party ideology that rose during the Obama presidency. This is referred to in a blog post I linked to in another thread:
In November 1981, President Reagan's controversial interior secretary, James Watt, said this:
I never use the words Democrats and Republicans. It's liberals and Americans.
You generally don't see Democrats saying 'Americans and conservatives,' implying that conservatives aren't truly American, but the Tea Party commonly wrapped themselves in the American flag and tried to claim that those who opposed them were unpatriotic, and 'hated America.' I'm not saying that the left and the Democratic party are immune to this and never vilify their opponents, but to me there is no question that the right has embraced that narrative to a much greater extent.

The issue is described in detail in an excellent article from Ezra Klein:

'How democracies die, explained'
“2017 was the best year for conservatives in the 30 years that I’ve been here,” Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell said this week. “The best year on all fronts. And a lot of people were shocked because we didn’t know what we were getting with Donald Trump.”

The best year on all fronts. Think about that for a moment. If you want to know why congressional Republicans are opening an assault on the FBI in order to protect Trump, it can be found in that comment. This was a year in which Trump undermined the press, fired the director of the FBI, cozied up to Russia, baselessly alleged he was wiretapped, threatened to jail his political opponents, publicly humiliated his attorney general for recusing himself from an investigation, repeatedly claimed massive voter fraud against him, appointed a raft of unqualified and occasionally ridiculous candidates to key positions, mishandled the aftermath of the Puerto Rico hurricane, and threatened to use antitrust and libel laws against his enemies.

And yet McConnell surveyed the tax cuts he passed and the regulations he repealed and called this not a mixed year for his political movement, not a good year for his political movement, but the best year he’d ever seen.

How Democracies Die argues that to survive, political systems need parties who place fundamental values above immediate political or policy gain. America’s democracy is currently operating without that protection. History shows that leaves us vulnerable.

When democracies die, they die quietly

Levitsky and Ziblatt [in How Democracies Die] begin by surveying the research on how modern democracies fall. There might have been a time, they say, when liberal political systems ended in military coups and fascist takeovers, but that era has ended. What happens now is subtler and, in some ways, harder to defend against.
This is how democracies now die. Blatant dictatorship — in the form of fascism, communism, or military rule — has disappeared across much of the world. Military coups and other violent seizures of power are rare. Most countries hold regular elections. Democracies still die, but by different means. Since the end of the Cold War, most democratic breakdowns have been caused not by generals and soldiers but by elected governments themselves. Like Chávez in Venezuela, elected leaders have subverted democratic institutions in Georgia, Hungary, Nicaragua, Peru, the Philippines, Poland, Russia, Sri Lanka, Turkey, and Ukraine. Democratic backsliding today begins at the ballot box.
Democracies, in this telling, don’t die so much as they decline. The rhetoric that underlies democracy, the self-identity that is adopted by a democratic people, all that is hard to dislodge. In 2011, long after Venezuela had tumbled into authoritarianism, a majority of Venezuelans said they lived in a vibrant, thriving democracy. The genius of modern tyrants has been in realizing you don’t need to dislodge democracy; you need to co-opt it, you need to make it your own.
Many government efforts to subvert democracy are “legal,” in the sense that they are approved by the legislature or accepted by the courts. They may even be portrayed as efforts to improve democracy — making the judiciary more efficient, combating corruption, or cleaning up the electoral process. Newspapers still publish but are bought off or bullied into self-censorship. Citizens continue to criticize the government but often find themselves facing tax or other legal troubles. This sows public confusion. People do not immediately realize what is happening. Many continue to believe they are living under a democracy.
To do this, democracy’s enemies need allies, and they find them in the traditional parties and politicians trying to absorb or appeal to their movement. Of the book’s broad lessons, this is the one of most relevance to the United States in 2018: Democracies fend off challenges when participants value the preservation of the system — its norms and ideals and values — over short-term political gain.

...

“Two basic norms have preserved America’s checks and balances in ways we have come to take for granted,” write Levitsky and Ziblatt. “Mutual toleration, or the understanding that competing parties accept one another as legitimate rivals, and forbearance, or the idea that politicians should exercise restraint in deploying their institutional prerogatives. These two norms undergirded American democracy for most of the twentieth century.”

That these norms are slipping into the mist is uncontroversial. By one count, there were 385 Senate filibusters between 2007 and 2012 — which is, Levitsky and Ziblatt note, equal to the number of filibusters in the seven decades between World War I and the end of the Reagan administration. The confirmation of circuit court appointments, which was over 90 percent in the 1980s, fell to about 50 percent during Barack Obama’s presidency.

In 2013, Senate Democrats curtailed the filibuster’s powers. When Justice Antonin Scalia died, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell refused to even hold a hearing considering Merrick Garland, Obama’s pick to replace him.

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Re: Trump, the man with a dream of a Wall

Post by Tero » Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:16 pm

Corn Syrup Lobbyist Is Helping Set USDA Dietary Guidelines
http://www.ibtimes.com/political-capita ... es-2649307

Trump people have also ruined organic. Fake organic eggs now pass as real organic.

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Re: Trump, the man with a dream of a Wall

Post by L'Emmerdeur » Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:30 pm

Ethics rules are just a conspiracy by the deep state to keep America from becoming great again. MAGA!

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Re: Trump, the man with a dream of a Wall

Post by Tero » Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:39 pm

Rasmussen poll 49%. Trump: I’m winning!

Reality:According to Gallup's latest data, from Jan. 28, Trump's approval sat significantly lower, at 38 percent.

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Re: Trump, the man with a dream of a Wall

Post by Seabass » Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:34 pm

"I am the law and order candidate." —Donald Trump

"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." —Voltaire
"They want to take away your hamburgers. This is what Stalin dreamt about but never achieved." —Sebastian Gorka

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Re: Trump, the man with a dream of a Wall

Post by Hermit » Sun Feb 04, 2018 1:04 am

Seabass wrote:"I am the law and order candidate." —Donald Trump

What a remarkable turnaround by both parties since the days J. Edgar Hoover headed the FBI.
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops. - Stephen J. Gould

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Re: Trump, the man with a dream of a Wall

Post by Brian Peacock » Sun Feb 04, 2018 1:47 am

Trump can try and fire his way out of trouble I guess, but who's going to be willing to fulfil the role of the loyal and eager stooge he needs if/when Rosenstein and Mueller get their cards?
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: Trump, the man with a dream of a Wall

Post by Tero » Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:27 am

Fast forward to Dec 2020. It’s just going to be one employee: the girl that brings him his diet coke in the WH. But he will still have that errand boy from the Capitol bringing him bills to sign. ”Bring me something to sign!”
-There’s still cod, sir!
-What about it?
- We’ll fish it to extinction, says the boy.
- Fine! Have them draft a bill. Or can I just order it?
- Sanders will just erase it in January.
-OK, bring me the extinction bill next time!

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Re: Trump, the man with a dream of a Wall

Post by Scot Dutchy » Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:05 am

Brian Peacock wrote:Trump can try and fire his way out of trouble I guess, but who's going to be willing to fulfil the role of the loyal and eager stooge he needs if/when Rosenstein and Mueller get their cards?
He wont have to. It is obvious what he is doing; brainwashing. He is never these days off the front pages. His face is everywhere. Think Big Brother. He is still lying everyday through his teeth. Anything positive he claims he is responsible. Negative; it is someone else's fault. Fact checkers dont bother him as it is fake news. All the satire news programmes just confirm what his supporters think; they are wrong and Trump is right. He is winning. If Mueller cant pin him he will be in for a second term. As he said during his election campaign "I can walk down 5th. Avenue and just shoot people and nothing will happen".

This is the most frightening aspect. The uncontrollable despot.
"Wat is het een gezellig boel hier".

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Re: Trump, the man with a dream of a Wall

Post by Scot Dutchy » Sun Feb 04, 2018 12:34 pm

China condemns US over nuclear escalation, accusing Trump administration of 'Cold War mentality'
Beijing criticises Pentagon report, calling on Washington to 'earnestly shoulder its special and prior responsibility for its own nuclear disarmament'

The bigliest warmonger ever.
"Wat is het een gezellig boel hier".

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