Most pointless referendum ever?

[Cormac]

I've been seeing a lot of posters of late around Dublin about children's rights and it seems there is a referendum coming up to strengthen child protection laws.
I haven't seen one poster against it, even The Church, overtly at least, are in full support. I would imagine only a monster would be against it. Is this going to be the most landslide referendum in Irish history? It seems they should just push it through and not waste money on a referendum at all.

No can do.

The only way to adjust those parts of our constitution not already usurped by the EU is by referendum.

Which means we get to have a helluva lot of referendums:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amendments ... eferendums

It doesn't matter how inconsequential it is, or how much of a foregone conclusion it might be. The 6th referendum had under 29% turnout, but 99% support:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixth_Amen ... of_Ireland

I like the fifth amendment the best:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_Amen ... of_Ireland

[Animavore]

I've noticed a small number of religious types against it because there's nothing in there to protect the unborn. Including those wankers at Alive magazine. What's crawled up their ass? They're going against the official Church line.

What? The unborn are pretty fucking protected, unless someone gets the Dyson out. Funny how you never see stuff on in-utero child abuse or neglect, womb-child poverty (though I could see some doof liberal whining about that) foetal labour laws, pre-born schooling.

Seriously right to life and all that shit aside, that's fucking mental.

What they are actually doing is trying to usurp any future abortion referendum. And given the current political climate that looks likely in the next year or so. Remember abortion is illegal here.

This is not strictly true Animavore.

Abortion is permitted in Ireland where the life of the mother is threatened, as far as I am aware.

Yes. It is. I should've been more thorough

[klr]

The real reason why there's been no move towards an abortion referendum recently is (IMHO) because many politicians view it as being a toxic exercise. No real benefit for them, and a lot of divisive aggro.

...

I like the fifth amendment the best:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_Amen ... of_Ireland

I also like the fact that Fianna Fail tried twice to get rid of PR voting, and failed.

[Cormac]

I've noticed a small number of religious types against it because there's nothing in there to protect the unborn. Including those wankers at Alive magazine. What's crawled up their ass? They're going against the official Church line.

Arguably, the referendum isn't needed, on the basis that all the necessary powers already exist, but the courts and other state agents have balked at the key moments. If they balk now, what is to keep them from balking in the future.

I dunno. Why are they balking now? Isn't that what the referendum aims to change?

In some respects. It depends to some extent on how the courts currently interpret aspects of the constitutions and the relevant legislation.

The separation of powers reserves power to legislate to the Dail. Sometimes "interpretation" by the Supreme Court can stray into territory that comes close to, or is indistinguishable in effect from, legislating. Our current judiciary are reluctant to engage in this activity. They also give emphasis to constitutional measures that protect the family from arbitrary state intervention.

At a lower, and more relevant level, the Gardsi don't exercise their rights to remove children from imminent harm anywhere near often enough. Social workers aren't available at weekends or after office hours, and courts operate Monday to Friday. This is where the state primarily fails children.

Then the legislation produces a very bureaucratic approach that leaves children exposed for far too long.

It is hoped that this referendum will give the constitutional framework to adjust the legislation to address this problem.

This leaves the problem of how adequately state agencies will respond...

[Cormac]

The real reason why there's been no move towards an abortion referendum recently is (IMHO) because many politicians view it as being a toxic exercise. No real benefit for them, and a lot of divisive aggro.

...

I like the fifth amendment the best:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_Amen ... of_Ireland

I also like the fact that Fianna Fail tried twice to get rid of PR voting, and failed.

And this is why the referendum is a critical defence of the sovereignty of the people, and why it should not be slowed to be cheapened, dumbed down, or made the football of domestic or foreign political interests.

[Svartalf]

PR voting? what's that acronym?

[klr]

PR voting? what's that acronym?

Proportional Representation. In Ireland, that means the Single Transferable Vote (STV) system using multi-seat constituencies:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_transferable_vote

As the largest party in Ireland, Fianna Fail wanted the voting system changed to UK-style "first past the post" voting in single-seat constituencies. This would have given Fianna Fail a much better chance of getting an overall majority, without getting anywhere near 50% of the overall vote. Which is of course what happens in with the Conservative and Labour parties in the UK. But not here. No first past the post please, we're Irish.

[Svartalf]

OK, I see why the Fail would want to turn english and have a 2 party system.

[klr]

Also, the protracted counting of votes during an Irish general election makes for compulsive viewing/listening. We won't be robbed of our entertainment!