Obama haters raising hell over 500 million

[Coito ergo sum]

Edit: Wait. You mean in additional taxes?

Yes, that is what I meant - if it's going to go to a single payer system.

[FBM]

Ah. Not sure what the single payer system would entail. Will do some reading before I say anything else...

[Coito ergo sum]

Ah. Not sure what the single payer system would entail. Will do some reading before I say anything else...

Can't be free, right?

[FBM]

Ah. Not sure what the single payer system would entail. Will do some reading before I say anything else...

Can't be free, right?

To whom? There are some people I think who deserve free health care. At the top of the list is ME. (Please don't ask for a reason as to why I deserve anything for free. Just go with it this once, eh? )

[Ronja]

I would enjoy the living shit out of that, as a matter of fact. Being uninsurable, like so many other US citizens under the present "system", is one thing that keeps me overseas.

If only you could guess how that makes me feel... It's unfathomable, incomprehensible and gut-wrenchingly sad. Not being able to go back "home" (I realize it would not necessarily be your only home by now) because I cannot afford to have an accident or fall seriously ill... that would be a rather ultimate insult for me.

I was outraged enough to change careers when I finally figured out that on a nurse's income, I would never be able to own an apartment in my birth city. This was because the trend for better wages had been cut short after the national nurses' strike, directly after which I had applied to nursing school. My forefathers and -mothers have lived in Helsinki for four generations before me - too bad it just happens to be our capitol and thus the most expensive place to live in this country. And so today I am (almost) an engineer.

But the "uninsurable" part - there really is not way around that, is there? Once more I am deeply thankful for our single payer + voluntary additional insurances system. It's not perfect, but at least it leaves nobody completely out in the cold.

[Tero]

Most couples just end up working jobs such that one has a major corporation for an employer. In the land of freedom, it is no longer possible to be a small businessman and insure yourself. Employers with less than 50 employees are not required to get insurance for the workers either.

We do have workman's compensation that covers work injuries.

Contractors and temps get insurance if any from temp agency.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Only making $30~50k/yr? So, like, they might have to wait another 3~4 months before upgrading their luxury sedan/Hummer/vacation house/swimming pool? Yeah, that's a way unreasonable burden on them, just to maintain the blue-collar workers' ability to manufacture widgets.

Grossing $30,000/yr in SoCal won't get you shit. The rents alone will eat up 75% of that ... assuming you have no taxes deducted at all. With a likely take-home $24k, and rent of $1500/mo the $500/mo left over is working mighty hard to keep you fed and watered. Assuming a 10% tax hike to pay for the plan, that takes $250/mo away from our hypothetical Californian. That leaves $250/month to eat, keep the lights on, put gas in your car, keep clothed ... you get the picture. Even $50k p.a. out here is chump change.

Note, as well, that we haven't broached any retirement savings to this point.

[Warren Dew]

I would enjoy the living shit out of that, as a matter of fact. Being uninsurable, like so many other US citizens under the present "system", is one thing that keeps me overseas.

You could just move to a sensible state like Massachusetts, where preexisting conditions don't keep you from being insured. No need for federal level intervention like Obamacare, with its prohibition on physician owned hospital construction and such.

[Warren Dew]

As for single payer systems, they save money by skimping on coverage:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... -life.html

[Tero]

We will be seeing quite a few "biotech" drugs that provide some benefit but no cure and which will still be rather expensive to produce. So insurance has to deal with that, some way. If people do not get the drug, it makes no sense to produce it.

[Ronja]

As for single payer systems, they save money by skimping on coverage:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... -life.html

Are you comparing a particular single payer system (or single payer systems in general) with something else here, or what was your point? AFAIK, every insurer, private or government controlled, limits coverage and does not pay for treatments that are considered "experimental." The criteria for what is "experimental" varies from one payer to another, of course.