Having 10% believers WILL convert us all. Not 'can'

Post Reply
User avatar
FBM
Ratz' first Gritizen.
Posts: 45327
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 12:43 pm
About me: Skeptic. "Because it does not contend
It is therefore beyond reproach"
Contact:
Contact FBM

Re: Having 10% believers WILL convert us all. Not 'can'

Post by FBM » Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:15 am

JimC wrote:Deep down, I suspect that this reflects a human tendency to respond to the emotional intensity of a person expressing a belief. Committed true believers can exert an almost hypnotic effect on a very significant number of people.

In comparison, atheist viewpoints are usually expressed at a relatively low level of emotional intensity...
Yeah, I reckon. :bored:



















;)
"A philosopher is a blind man in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there. A theologian is the man who finds it." ~ H. L. Mencken

"We ain't a sharp species. We kill each other over arguments about what happens when you die, then fail to see the fucking irony in that."

"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism while the wolf remains of a different opinion."
Top
User avatar
GrahamH
Posts: 921
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 12:29 pm
Location: South coast, UK
Contact:
Contact GrahamH

Re: Having 10% believers WILL convert us all. Not 'can'

Post by GrahamH » Wed Jul 27, 2011 8:40 am

FBM wrote:http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 190044.htm
As an example, the ongoing events in Tunisia and Egypt appear to exhibit a similar process, according to Szymanski. "In those countries, dictators who were in power for decades were suddenly overthrown in just a few weeks."
That seems like very bad example. Surely it is a case of people already holding the belief that X is bad, and then deciding that is was now safe enough to voice that opinion. They need to study populations encountering new ideas.
"In general, people do not like to have an unpopular opinion and are always seeking to try locally to come to consensus.
People don't like to voice an unpopular opinion to strangers ho may not share that opinion. That doesn't tell us what the believe.
The researchers are now looking for partners within the social sciences and other fields to compare their computational models to historical examples.
Cart before the horse! They started with a model then tried to find historical events that fit the model? Crazy!
Top
User avatar
Gawdzilla Sama
Stabsobermaschinist
Posts: 151265
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 12:24 am
About me: My posts are related to the thread in the same way Gliese 651b is related to your mother's underwear drawer.
Location: Sitting next to Ayaan in Domus Draconis, and communicating via PMs.
Contact:
Contact Gawdzilla Sama

Re: Having 10% believers WILL convert us all. Not 'can'

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:35 am

What if there's more than one "10% group" in a society at one time?
Image
Ein Ubootsoldat wrote:“Ich melde mich ab. Grüssen Sie bitte meine Kameraden.”
Top
User avatar
FBM
Ratz' first Gritizen.
Posts: 45327
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 12:43 pm
About me: Skeptic. "Because it does not contend
It is therefore beyond reproach"
Contact:
Contact FBM

Re: Having 10% believers WILL convert us all. Not 'can'

Post by FBM » Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:37 am

Holy war.
"A philosopher is a blind man in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there. A theologian is the man who finds it." ~ H. L. Mencken

"We ain't a sharp species. We kill each other over arguments about what happens when you die, then fail to see the fucking irony in that."

"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism while the wolf remains of a different opinion."
Top
User avatar
Gawdzilla Sama
Stabsobermaschinist
Posts: 151265
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 12:24 am
About me: My posts are related to the thread in the same way Gliese 651b is related to your mother's underwear drawer.
Location: Sitting next to Ayaan in Domus Draconis, and communicating via PMs.
Contact:
Contact Gawdzilla Sama

Re: Having 10% believers WILL convert us all. Not 'can'

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:39 am

FBM wrote:Holy war.
Holey war? Over Swiss cheese? :thinks:
Image
Ein Ubootsoldat wrote:“Ich melde mich ab. Grüssen Sie bitte meine Kameraden.”
Top
User avatar
FBM
Ratz' first Gritizen.
Posts: 45327
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 12:43 pm
About me: Skeptic. "Because it does not contend
It is therefore beyond reproach"
Contact:
Contact FBM

Re: Having 10% believers WILL convert us all. Not 'can'

Post by FBM » Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:47 am

Gawdzilla wrote:
FBM wrote:Holy war.
Holey war? Over Swiss cheese? :thinks:
Bacon, you damned infidel!! :irate:
"A philosopher is a blind man in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there. A theologian is the man who finds it." ~ H. L. Mencken

"We ain't a sharp species. We kill each other over arguments about what happens when you die, then fail to see the fucking irony in that."

"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism while the wolf remains of a different opinion."
Top
User avatar
Gawdzilla Sama
Stabsobermaschinist
Posts: 151265
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 12:24 am
About me: My posts are related to the thread in the same way Gliese 651b is related to your mother's underwear drawer.
Location: Sitting next to Ayaan in Domus Draconis, and communicating via PMs.
Contact:
Contact Gawdzilla Sama

Re: Having 10% believers WILL convert us all. Not 'can'

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:54 am

FBM wrote:
Gawdzilla wrote:
FBM wrote:Holy war.
Holey war? Over Swiss cheese? :thinks:
Bacon, you damned infidel!! :irate:
Baconnaise and Swiss Cheesus on Texas toast.
Image
Ein Ubootsoldat wrote:“Ich melde mich ab. Grüssen Sie bitte meine Kameraden.”
Top
User avatar
FBM
Ratz' first Gritizen.
Posts: 45327
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 12:43 pm
About me: Skeptic. "Because it does not contend
It is therefore beyond reproach"
Contact:
Contact FBM

Re: Having 10% believers WILL convert us all. Not 'can'

Post by FBM » Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:56 am

Gawdzilla wrote:
FBM wrote:
Gawdzilla wrote:
FBM wrote:Holy war.
Holey war? Over Swiss cheese? :thinks:
Bacon, you damned infidel!! :irate:
Baconnaise and Swiss Cheesus on Texas toast.
Blasphemy! Fucking...delicious-sounding blasphemy...

You will be executed, but not until after I've made me a sammich...
"A philosopher is a blind man in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there. A theologian is the man who finds it." ~ H. L. Mencken

"We ain't a sharp species. We kill each other over arguments about what happens when you die, then fail to see the fucking irony in that."

"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism while the wolf remains of a different opinion."
Top
User avatar
Gawdzilla Sama
Stabsobermaschinist
Posts: 151265
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 12:24 am
About me: My posts are related to the thread in the same way Gliese 651b is related to your mother's underwear drawer.
Location: Sitting next to Ayaan in Domus Draconis, and communicating via PMs.
Contact:
Contact Gawdzilla Sama

Re: Having 10% believers WILL convert us all. Not 'can'

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:57 am

FBM wrote:
Gawdzilla wrote:
FBM wrote:
Gawdzilla wrote:
FBM wrote:Holy war.
Holey war? Over Swiss cheese? :thinks:
Bacon, you damned infidel!! :irate:
Baconnaise and Swiss Cheesus on Texas toast.
Blasphemy! Fucking...delicious-sounding blasphemy...

You will be executed, but not until after I've made me a sammich...
Baconnaise, Lettuce and Tomato sammy. :drool:
Image
Ein Ubootsoldat wrote:“Ich melde mich ab. Grüssen Sie bitte meine Kameraden.”
Top
User avatar
Warren Dew
Posts: 3781
Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2010 1:41 pm
Location: Somerville, MA, USA
Contact:
Contact Warren Dew

Re: Having 10% believers WILL convert us all. Not 'can'

Post by Warren Dew » Wed Jul 27, 2011 5:30 pm

FBM wrote:Good point, Warren. I wonder how many people IRL are so demanding of evidence or actually take the time to deeply examine the beliefs of their peers.
Clearly less than 10%, or beliefs based on empirical observation and logic would have taken over, right? At least that's what this research would say.

I would guess that maybe 5% test and form beliefs based on empirical data and objective logic - and it's not just the beliefs of their peers that are tested, but their own beliefs as well, since one can learn new facts that may require reanalysis of existing beliefs.

Then there's the issue of logic. Logic requires not just an attitude, but a certain level of intelligence - a level which may vary depending on the complexity of the problem. There are probably issues on which we cannot form a fully rational belief, because no human being is smart enough to deduce the truth given currently known facts.
Top
User avatar
Audley Strange
"I blame the victim"
Posts: 7485
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 5:00 pm
Contact:
Contact Audley Strange

Re: Having 10% believers WILL convert us all. Not 'can'

Post by Audley Strange » Wed Jul 27, 2011 11:42 pm

I'd suggest the problem is that the central punishment/reward dialectic of morality and self identification within a belief system cannot be compared to with a rejection of its central hypothesis. So atheism as a movement seems to me actually more desired towards the removal what they see as counterfeit religious authority, rather than just a bunch of folks who don't buy the fable. Abandoning a belief is not the same as sharing in one.

If the atheism movement is concerned more with removal of power from religious groups rather than just people who share a disbelief in the concept it has become a political movement. It will need a central herd of felines with a shared political ideology and cultural narrative that goes far beyond its one issue in order to even begin to be effective enough to be considered an alternative to the belief system it sets out to devalue.

I cannot see that happening.
"What started as a legitimate effort by the townspeople of Salem to identify, capture and kill those who did Satan's bidding quickly deteriorated into a witch hunt" Army Man
Top
Post Reply

Return to “General Serious Discussion & Philosophy”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests