Alcohol 'more harmful than heroin'?

[Feck]

Not sure heroin does you much damage if you were to take sensible levels either .(not that is a justification because very few people can manage to stay at a sensible level )

[Pappa]

Not sure heroin does you much damage if you were to take sensible levels either .(not that is a justification because very few people can manage to stay at a sensible level )

Heroin is non-toxic.

[Pappa]

I think he's my cousin

Cool!

[maiforpeace]

Not sure heroin does you much damage if you were to take sensible levels either .(not that is a justification because very few people can manage to stay at a sensible level )

In my opinion, what's most harmful about street Heroin is all the crap it gets cut with.

[Coito ergo sum]

Alcohol is more harmful than heroin or crack, according to a study published in medical journal the Lancet.

The report is co-authored by Professor David Nutt, the former UK chief drugs adviser who was sacked by the government in October 2009.

It ranks 20 drugs on 16 measures of harm to users and to wider society.

Tobacco and cocaine are judged to be equally harmful, while ecstasy and LSD are among the least damaging.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11660210

It would be nice to see the full report or at least a summary from one of the scientists if anyone knows where to dig up the right one. The media seem hopeless at reporting science stories - they've left out any sort of break down or meaning of the "Harm score" in the statistics, and the tone of the whole article seems contradicted by Nutt's "Because alcohol is so widely used".

I have no idea if the "Harm" whether it's "to users" or "to others" is based on the effect of the drug per person received medically, effect of the drug per person received 'off the street', the current effect in society as a whole based on current usage, or some combination of the above.

The devil is in the detail, but they seem to have left it out in favour of a shock headline. Might as well be reading the Mail. :sighsm:

Anyway, who wants a drink?

I haven't read the articles about this yet, but if I were a bettin' man, I would bet a ton of money on the fact that they are defining "harm" to mean the general harm to society at large, which would include all the drunk drivers, accidents, number of overdoses, etc. But, they phrase the story in such a way that people read "Alcohol more harmful than heroin!" in order to increase opposition to alcohol.

Alcohol is not more harmful to a person than heroin. I mean - if you had a 12 year old child and your choice was to have him drink 3 shots of tequila, or do heroin one time, which would you choose? Of course you'd choose the tequila. Why? Because heroin is a lot more harmful to a person than alcohol. Plus, it's a lot more addictive.

I'm sure, overall, given the number of alcohol users vs heroin users, together with the chronic ailments linked to alcohol like liver disease and stuff like that, it can be argued that the overall "harm" caused by alcohol is greater than the overall harm caused by heroin. But, I can't think of anyone who would suggest that we'd have less harm if all the drinkers switched to heroin.

[Pappa]

Not sure heroin does you much damage if you were to take sensible levels either .(not that is a justification because very few people can manage to stay at a sensible level )

In my opinion, what's most harmful about street Heroin is all the crap it gets cut with.

+1. Well, that and it's legal status.

[PsychoSerenity]

I haven't read the articles about this yet, but if I were a bettin' man, I would bet a ton of money on the fact that they are defining "harm" to mean the general harm to society at large, which would include all the drunk drivers, accidents, number of overdoses, etc. But, they phrase the story in such a way that people read "Alcohol more harmful than heroin!" in order to increase opposition to alcohol.

Alcohol is not more harmful to a person than heroin. I mean - if you had a 12 year old child and your choice was to have him drink 3 shots of tequila, or do heroin one time, which would you choose? Of course you'd choose the tequila. Why? Because heroin is a lot more harmful to a person than alcohol. Plus, it's a lot more addictive.

I'm sure, overall, given the number of alcohol users vs heroin users, together with the chronic ailments linked to alcohol like liver disease and stuff like that, it can be argued that the overall "harm" caused by alcohol is greater than the overall harm caused by heroin. But, I can't think of anyone who would suggest that we'd have less harm if all the drinkers switched to heroin.

Yeah, the trouble is they're really not making it clear. If the point of the study is to say to the government "These are the drugs that are currently causing the most trouble in our society" then that's what needs to be said. If on the other hand, it's showing the probability of problems related to each drug as taken per person, you would expect completely different results. For all I can tell, this report could be anywhere between the two with weighted results.

They've updated the article and now linked to this which goes into a bit more detail: http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters ... ts_up.html

"The weighting process is necessarily based on judgement, so it is best done by a group of experts working to consensus," the report authors say.

"Extensive sensitivity analyses on the weights showed that this model is very stable; large changes, or combinations of modest changes, are needed to drive substantial shifts in the overall rankings of the drugs."

You can see that on mortality and dependence alcohol isn't anywhere near as bad as heroin - but it still doesn't say if that's mortality per user or mortality throughout the country.

I also don't understand how they've worked out the weighting. Can anyone explain why injury and economic cost would be weighted so high?

[Deep Sea Isopod]

Yes the name joke is V funny I wonder if that's why that girl called Hazel didn't want to marry me ????

And the oriental girl. Suk Mi.

[Santa_Claus]

Do you think reports like this could make people turn to heroin instead of alcohol?

You can't base any public health policies around folk that stupid.

A good argument to say that Junkies are born, not made - it's just a matter of time and the matter of the substance they will use to self medicate.

My vote would in favour of less harm to society (and that includes the financial cost) over the harm to any individual. Money for OAP health care or for chasing Junkies?

My guess is that HMG will role out medicalising of Heroin - just not admit what they are doing. But to crack the drugs war really need to decrim cannabis and also regulate it. for exactly the same reason that I don't get offered smack or crack every time I buy a packet of ciggarettes and that although I know fags are not good for me I also know my 20 Bensons haven't been laced with Smack or Crack, let alone rat poisin.

[Feck]

Well to be honest The list of permitted additives to tobacco is pretty scary

http://quitsmoking.about.com/cs/nicotin ... dients.htm

[maiforpeace]

Well to be honest The list of permitted additives to tobacco is pretty scary

http://quitsmoking.about.com/cs/nicotin ... dients.htm

Not to mention inhaling anything that is burning - which might suggest marijuana being more dangerous in this study as well. If pot is vaporized or injested it's not nearly as bad for your physical health.

[Coito ergo sum]

Well to be honest The list of permitted additives to tobacco is pretty scary

http://quitsmoking.about.com/cs/nicotin ... dients.htm

Not to mention inhaling anything that is burning - which might suggest marijuana being more dangerous in this study as well. If pot is vaporized or injested it's not nearly as bad for your physical health.

I wonder if they have a version of the "electronic cigarette" for pot. That would be interesting.

[Ironclad]

Not sure heroin does you much damage if you were to take sensible levels either .(not that is a justification because very few people can manage to stay at a sensible level )

In my opinion, what's most harmful about street Heroin is all the crap it gets cut with.

+1. Well, that and it's legal status.

All the more reason to legalize it then. UK's government status "controlled drugs" is an oxymoron.

[Feck]

Prohibition isn't working and no matter how many lies they tell ,how bad the scare stories are, it just means more people will ignore advice . The drug classifications are a joke .

[Pappa]

Prohibition isn't working and no matter how many lies they tell ,how bad the scare stories are, it just means more people will ignore advice . The drug classifications are a joke .

Prohibition: the failed 100 year drug experiment.