Hate speech on Ratz. Should we tolerate it?

[Pensioner]

I left a forum because they allowed (in my view anyway) promotion of a fascist party. If I thought for one minute that this forum allowed hate speech I would not post.

[RuleBritannia]

Who decides what "hate speech" is?

[Azathoth]

All kidding aside (yeah, right) I think that if personal attacks are banned, hate speech should also be banned.

I agree. I don't like knowing that a place I frequent condones serious hate-preaching. I won't invite anyone here knowing that hate speech is an element here. It's embarrassing. And to me opting to not view that particular area of the forum is merely sticking one's head in the sand while allowing it to proliferate, which strikes me as reprehensible.

We don't condone it. We allow it here and treat it with ridicule and derision. There is a difference

[owtth]

I left a forum because they allowed (in my view anyway) promotion of a fascist party. If I thought for one minute that this forum allowed hate speech I would not post.

It is allowed but it is not promoted it is derided and ridiculed.

[Eriku]

It's intolerant to not allow intolerance.

[BlackBart]

Certain parties aren't getting the message that their hate speech is not welcome here. The ridicule method, fun though it is, doesn't appear to have the desired effect. The many patient explanations of why their hate filled posts are detrimental to any valid point they have to make have also failed to make any impact.

Ratz has given them more than a fair opportunity to air their views, and they have made absolutely no effort to consider views other than their own.

I think a point has to be reached where one has to say 'Ok, enough is enough'.

Tolerance shouldn't be infinite.

[Trolldor]

Who decides?

[Jay G]

Who decides?

I decide. And you're the first to go.

[Trolldor]

Suck my balls.

[maiforpeace]

All kidding aside (yeah, right) I think that if personal attacks are banned, hate speech should also be banned.

I agree. I don't like knowing that a place I frequent condones serious hate-preaching. I won't invite anyone here knowing that hate speech is an element here. It's embarrassing. And to me opting to not view that particular area of the forum is merely sticking one's head in the sand while allowing it to proliferate, which strikes me as reprehensible.

We don't condone it. We allow it here and treat it with ridicule and derision. There is a difference

and

It's intolerant to not allow intolerance.

The idea of not 'tolerating' anything and just banning it entirely seems to be just another way to bury one's head in the sand regarding how to deal with it. None of the members here have been shy about expressing their feelings on such subjects, I think it's important that the dialogue is open as this is the only way we will continue to learn and understand why.

Specifically, in regards to Gawd and anyone who else who engages in hate speech, I tolerate it with pity - pity for Gawd that he is driven by so much hate for a group of people - he's obsessed with it. He has never participated in any part of the forum besides his where he is spewing his hatefulness. I pity that he probably doesn't enjoy community with others besides maybe nazi skinheads (or whatever hateful groups there are out there) and I pity that he is alienating himself from one of the funnest, warmest and brightest forums.

That's just sad.

[Rum]

You might expect me to immediately rush to the 'ban it' side of the room given my feelings about Gawd's posts. But I think we should consider this carefully before taking a step which arguably challenges, at least to a small extent, free speech.

I count a number of people here as friends - not just the ones I have met either. And I consider Ratz to be generally a warm and fun place to meet those people, have fun and shoot the breeze. I am also happy - or accepting anyway - of the occasional spat which gets dramatic and a bit out of hand. That's kind of how families work after all (not to be too maudlin about it).

Suppose every so often in the house or club or whatever where you meet your mates - well actually not just every so often, but pretty much every day - someone stood up and shouted 'black people/lesbians/old people/red heads etc.. are all evil bastards and are to blame for all the bad things in the world' how would it feel and what would you want done about it. Suppose too, you were a member of one of those groups?

Well I for one would want a rule saying that this was unacceptable.

I take Bella's point too. A loud mouthed bigot is not the sort of company I would wish to invite a friend to share company with.

On balance, having convinced myself as I have been writing, I am for making hate speech unacceptable here, in this place, my virtual net home.

[owtth]

The idea of not 'tolerating' anything and just banning it entirely seems to be just another way to bury one's head in the sand regarding how to deal with it. None of the members here have been shy about expressing their feelings on such subjects, I think it's important that the dialogue is open as this is the only way we will continue to learn and understand why.

Specifically, in regards to Gawd and anyone who else who engages in hate speech, I tolerate it with pity - pity for Gawd that he is driven by so much hate for a group of people - he's obsessed with it. He has never participated in any part of the forum besides his where he is spewing his hatefulness. I pity that he probably doesn't enjoy community with others besides maybe nazi skinheads (or whatever hateful groups there are out there) and I pity that he is alienating himself from one of the funnest, warmest and brightest forums.

That's just sad.

Yup, If any 'hate speakers' actually made a salient point I'm sure it would debated extensively, the arguments thus far merely warrant scorn.

[Robert_S]

I'm for getting rid of the hateful crap, as long as whatever rule we put in place is worded very carefully with lots of member input, then automatically subject to a revision in a few months to see if we still think it makes sense.

I am always very nervous about making new long standing rules to deal with a problem that just came up.

It also just occurred to me that some of the threads parodying a certain member, taken out of context might look awful... eh funny.

The idea of not 'tolerating' anything and just banning it entirely seems to be just another way to bury one's head in the sand regarding how to deal with it. None of the members here have been shy about expressing their feelings on such subjects, I think it's important that the dialogue is open as this is the only way we will continue to learn and understand why.

Specifically, in regards to Gawd and anyone who else who engages in hate speech, I tolerate it with pity - pity for Gawd that he is driven by so much hate for a group of people - he's obsessed with it. He has never participated in any part of the forum besides his where he is spewing his hatefulness. I pity that he probably doesn't enjoy community with others besides maybe nazi skinheads (or whatever hateful groups there are out there) and I pity that he is alienating himself from one of the funnest, warmest and brightest forums.

That's just sad.

Yup, If any 'hate speakers' actually made a salient point I'm sure it would debated extensively, the arguments thus far merely warrant scorn.

I can't honestly tell you whether or not Gawd makes any good points. Every time I read a post of his, I feel inclined to support the Israeli cause just a little more.

[owtth]

Well I for one would want a rule saying that this was unacceptable.

I take Bella's point too. A loud mouthed bigot is not the sort of company I would wish to invite a friend to share company with.

On balance, having convinced myself as I have been writing, I am for making hate speech unacceptable here, in this place, my virtual net home.

I have some friends and family that I would consider racist or bigoted, on some other topics they occasionally make sense. Whilst I have made it clear to them that I disagree with what they say I would never deign to say that their ideas are unacceptable as a topic of conversation, but then I'm always up for an argument.

[Pensioner]

You might expect me to immediately rush to the 'ban it' side of the room given my feelings about Gawd's posts. But I think we should consider this carefully before taking a step which arguably challenges, at least to a small extent, free speech.

I count a number of people here as friends - not just the ones I have met either. And I consider Ratz to be generally a warm and fun place to meet those people, have fun and shoot the breeze. I am also happy - or accepting anyway - of the occasional spat which gets dramatic and a bit out of hand. That's kind of how families work after all (not to be too maudlin about it).

Suppose every so often in the house or club or whatever where you meet your mates - well actually not just every so often, but pretty much every day - someone stood up and shouted 'black people/lesbians/old people/red heads etc.. are all evil bastards and are to blame for all the bad things in the world' how would it feel and what would you want done about it. Suppose too, you were a member of one of those groups?

Well I for one would want a rule saying that this was unacceptable.

I take Bella's point too. A loud mouthed bigot is not the sort of company I would wish to invite a friend to share company with.

On balance, having convinced myself as I have been writing, I am for making hate speech unacceptable here, in this place, my virtual net home.

Well said Rum. BTW I think of you as a mate, you cunt