The UK - better together!

[ronmcd]

Yup. Scots (and to a lesser extent Irish) helped expand and run the Empire, for good and ill.

All very interesting I suppose, and true, but ancient history. Scotland is drifting away from Westminister politically today, and has been for a decade, and that's the reason people might end up voting for independence. The empire is long gone, and from New Labour and Tony Bliar through to today's Scottish Labour decrying universal benefits and speaking the language of the Tories (Scotland is a "something for nothing" society) ... well ... fuck Scottish Labour.

[Jesus_of_Nazareth]

One thing can be certain of 100% post independence is that Scottish Labour (and the other parties) will neither fold up their tents and decamp to England - nor will they be fighting to give up idenpendence, they will be fighthing just as hard as the SNP to control Scotland. All those arguments against will be a fuzzy (and embarrassing!) memory.

Was interesting to hear Salmond on Radio 4 this morning - some screeching harpy trying to pretend to be Paxman, circa 1996............

......my hat of to Salmond for not losing his rag and asking whether she was a simpleton! or whether she was simply part of the pro union campaign. No doubt his calm and measure approach is tactical and not heartfelt!

[ronmcd]

Was interesting to hear Salmond on Radio 4 this morning - some screeching harpy trying to pretend to be Paxman, circa 1996............

......my hat of to Salmond for not losing his rag and asking whether she was a simpleton! or whether she was simply part of the pro union campaign. No doubt his calm and measure approach is tactical and not heartfelt!

Missed that. Probably a good thing, my levels of disgust & anger peaked at a dangerous level last night after watching MP's discuss the Referendum section 30 order. Absolutely and utterly disgusting. Seriously. I will quote some choice comments from the debate, for your delectation (transcript from independence supporting http://wingsland.podgamer.com/ whos comments reflect my personal disgust)

Ten days ago, Scottish Labour “deputy” leader Anas Sarwar issued a press release in his capacity as head of Labour’s referendum campaign, noting that “[Nicola Sturgeon] is right to say there has been a lot of negative campaigning. We will be raising the level of debate and ensuring that Scotland gets the level of debate it deserves.” Here are some extracts from Sarwar and his independence-fearing colleagues’ contributions to yesterday’s epic House of Commons “debate” (in which one side got a little over 10 times as long to put its case as the other) on the motion giving the Scottish Parliament the power to conduct the independence referendum.

Make your own judgement as to how they did, and the level of debate they apparently consider Scotland deserves.



Mr Ian Davidson (Glasgow South West) (Lab/Co-op):

“We see no reason for delaying the referendum until the end of 2014, except for perceived partisan advantage. The referendum will be timed to take place after the anniversary of the battle of Bannockburn, which is celebrated mainly because Scots slew large numbers of English people, and after the Commonwealth games in Glasgow. The fact that those events will take place before the referendum gives people the opportunity to celebrate the politics of identity and ethnicity.

We thought that Scotland in the 21st and 22nd century would be looking forward, and would be progressive and positive. Celebrating the murder of hundreds or thousands of English people does not necessarily provide the best base on which to move forward.”

Jim McGovern (Dundee West) (Lab):

“Does [Mr Davidson] find it somewhat odd that the former England football captain, Terry Butcher, will be entitled to vote in the referendum, but Sir Alex Ferguson will not?”

Jim Sheridan (Paisley and Renfrewshire North) (Lab):

“Does my hon. Friend agree that one of the nauseating things about some of the people who donate money to the SNP from abroad is that they live abroad to avoid paying tax, and yet they want to tell us in Scotland, who pay our taxes over here, how to live? That includes Sean Connery.”

Mr Ian Davidson (Glasgow South West) (Lab/Co-op):

“It is true that not only will Terry Butcher be able to vote and Alex Ferguson will not, but according to the Team GB information that we have, of the 11 Scottish Olympic medallists, only one is reported to be resident in Scotland. If people are good enough to represent Scotland at the Olympics and win medals on Scotland’s behalf, one would have thought that the rules would be sufficiently flexible to allow them to participate in the referendum.”



[Absolutely nobody, of course, "represented Scotland" or "won medals on Scotland's behalf" at the Olympics. Scotland is not a participating nation at the Olympics - at least not yet, anyway. The athletes in question represented "Great Britain".

But let's see if we can get this straight: It's disgusting that the referendum should be about ethnicity, but ethnic Scots who don't live in Scotland (like Alex Ferguson) should get the vote, in preference to non-ethnic Scots who do live in Scotland (like Terry Butcher), but other ethnic Scots who don't live in Scotland (like Sean Connery) shouldn't have any kind of say at all? Have we got that right?

Basically, the referendum franchise according to Labour whould be "ethnically-Scottish people, regardless of where they live, unless they might vote Yes".]



Mr Alistair Darling (Edinburgh South West) (Lab):

“We are passing all responsibility and authority from this House to the Scottish Parliament. There is absolutely nothing wrong in that; I support that. In practice, the transfer is not just to the Scottish Parliament but to the SNP, which runs the thing as a pretty tight ship – opposition is not usually tolerated – and not just to the SNP, because, as we know, the SNP is very much run by one individual. We need to be aware that that is what we are doing.”

Anas Sarwar (Glasgow Central) (Lab):

“We have a majority SNP Government in the Scottish Parliament, but that is not a democratic place in the conventional sense; it is a dictatorship of one man sitting in Bute House, who will do not what is in Scotland’s interests, but what is in his own or his party’s interests.”



[The only rational interpretation we can possibly put on these comments is that the "ethos" intended for the Scottish Parliament by the late Mr Dewar was that it should not be run by the SNP. Apparently majority government is "strong" if it's Tony Blair or Gordon Brown having absolute control of a Westminster parliament on 35% of the vote and running it from their sofa, but a "dictatorship" if it's an SNP leader commanding a majority at Holyrood on 45% of the vote.]

.... and so much more. Genuinely disgusting. There were to be fair a small number of good speeches, Charles Kennedy, the Tory ex diplomat who's name I can't remember off the top of my head, and Angus Robertson for SNP were all reasonable. The rest were universally shocking. Thankfully, they are irrelevant now as the process is in the hands of the Scottish Parliament, unless the Lords vote against the section 30 today.

[Cormac]

ahem.

You've also been that tyrant together...

Yup. Scots (and to a lesser extent Irish) helped expand and run the Empire, for good and ill.

Only the shoneen wankers...

[Jason]

Imagine me and you, I do
I think about you day and night, it's only right
To think about the girl you love and hold her tight
So happy together

If I should call you up, invest a dime
And you say you belong to me and ease my mind
Imagine how the world could be, so very fine
So happy together

I can't see me lovin' nobody but you
For all my life
When you're with me, baby the skies'll be blue
For all my life

Me and you and you and me
No matter how they toss the dice, it has to be
The only one for me is you, and you for me
So happy together

I can't see me lovin' nobody but you
For all my life
When you're with me, baby the skies'll be blue
For all my life

Me and you and you and me
No matter how they toss the dice, it has to be
The only one for me is you, and you for me
So happy together

Ba-ba-ba-ba ba-ba-ba-ba ba-ba-ba ba-ba-ba-ba
Ba-ba-ba-ba ba-ba-ba-ba ba-ba-ba ba-ba-ba-ba

Me and you and you and me
No matter how they toss the dice, it has to be
The only one for me is you, and you for me
So happy together

So happy together
How is the weather
So happy together
We're happy together
So happy together
Happy together
So happy together
So happy together (ba-ba-ba-ba ba-ba-ba-ba)