Man forced to stand on 7 hr. flight due to obese neighbor.

[Audley Strange]

Shelby Cross is the only person on that entire network not working for Kim Jung Il.

[Seth]

Making laws to prohibit fees like baggage fees is a pointless exercise.

Strawman. The Sherman Act makes monopolies illegal.

Which is a waste of paper because monopolies cannot exist without a government franchise protecting them. There are no monopolies in the US for that reason.

Now, you talk about "ripping off taxpayers." The reality is that air travel in the US became, after privatization, among the least expensive in the world.

Changing the subject. That doesn't change the fact they're ripping everyone off and getting away with violating the Sherman Act by colluding on pricing.

Your proofs that they are "colluding?" Never mind, you don't have any because there aren't any. Correlation is not causation, which fact seems to escape you regularly.

What would you do to reduce the fares and how low would you expect them to go? Would you be able to reduce the range to, say, $150 to $300 max? What is it that you think is fair?

Changing the subject. The subject is not getting hit with a surprise at the checkin counter. It's extortion.

No, it's not. The airlines run under government-controlled tariffs, and they disclose everything you need to know prior to your purchase of the ticket, specifically including the number, size and weight of bags that are paid for under the ticket. Just because you can't read the fucking manual doesn't mean they are "extorting" you.

[Cunt]

I'd probably have just grabbed my book, gone to the restroom, sat down, and read for a while. If they want me out of there, they'd have to seat me somewhere, whether it be the flight attendant's chair or whatever.

This sounds like a well-thought out, reasonably promising answer. I can't help but think that they would still taze you, though.


I would add lowering my trousers and making farting noises and stink, just as cover.

Gravity discriminates, and fuck anyone who doesn't like it. That law won't change, even for fat people with a reasonable excuse.

I was not being serious.

Can't I pick a fight anyway....?

Fuck.

The airlines run under government-controlled tariffs, and they disclose everything you need to know prior to your purchase of the ticket, specifically including the number, size and weight of bags that are paid for under the ticket. Just because you can't read the fucking manual doesn't mean they are "extorting" you.

I have been walking from the check in counter to my flight, and had a table in a hallway with a busybody at it insisting on a cash-only 'airport improvement fee'. I happened to have the cash, and since making a scene in an airport is...well, frowned upon (the bastards tazed a passenger to death in Vancouver a few years ago) I paid (I think it was 5 bucks). I saw another person stuck there, with a few kids, panicking because she didn't have the cash.

I don't think they deliberately screw you, don't get me wrong. Being screwed by incompetence is just as fucky as the other kind, though.

[hadespussercats]

hadespussercats,

Are you really suggesting that if the obese man was simply in denial about how much of an inconvenience his weight would be (despite recognizing it by admitting to being the mans' "worst nightmare") to others that this somehow exempts him from blame?

Blame for what?

That right there answers my question

It doesn't, really. Seth at least explained what he meant.

I don't think the man had a right to take over another man's seat. But I don't think he intended to-- he was too big to help it. That doesn't mean the non-obese man should have lost out-- I just think it's going too far to make the obese man out as some sort of villain.

I think the airline fucked up by letting the man board when there was only one seat left and the man clearly wouldn't fit in a single seat.

Now, if you were saying doesn't the man deserve blame for letting himself grow to such inconvenient proportions, I would say probably. But I don't think that means he has given up any claim to sympathy or civil treatment.

[Xamonas Chegwé]

hadespussercats,

Are you really suggesting that if the obese man was simply in denial about how much of an inconvenience his weight would be (despite recognizing it by admitting to being the mans' "worst nightmare") to others that this somehow exempts him from blame?

Blame for what?

That right there answers my question

It doesn't, really. Seth at least explained what he meant.

I don't think the man had a right to take over another man's seat. But I don't think he intended to-- he was too big to help it. That doesn't mean the non-obese man should have lost out-- I just think it's going too far to make the obese man out as some sort of villain.

I think the airline fucked up by letting the man board when there was only one seat left and the man clearly wouldn't fit in a single seat.

Now, if you were saying doesn't the man deserve blame for letting himself grow to such inconvenient proportions, I would say probably. But I don't think that means he has given up any claim to sympathy or civil treatment.

In the article linked to in the OP, the airline admits that their ground-staff were at fault for allowing the obese man on board when he was clearly too big for a single seat and there was no extra seating available. I think the overall blame has been addressed quite handsomely. All that remains is how it should have been handled airside.

[hadespussercats]

hadespussercats,

Are you really suggesting that if the obese man was simply in denial about how much of an inconvenience his weight would be (despite recognizing it by admitting to being the mans' "worst nightmare") to others that this somehow exempts him from blame?

Blame for what?

That right there answers my question

It doesn't, really. Seth at least explained what he meant.

I don't think the man had a right to take over another man's seat. But I don't think he intended to-- he was too big to help it. That doesn't mean the non-obese man should have lost out-- I just think it's going too far to make the obese man out as some sort of villain.

I think the airline fucked up by letting the man board when there was only one seat left and the man clearly wouldn't fit in a single seat.

Now, if you were saying doesn't the man deserve blame for letting himself grow to such inconvenient proportions, I would say probably. But I don't think that means he has given up any claim to sympathy or civil treatment.

In the article linked to in the OP, the airline admits that their ground-staff were at fault for allowing the obese man on board when he was clearly too big for a single seat and there was no extra seating available. I think the overall blame has been addressed quite handsomely. All that remains is how it should have been handled airside.

Yeah, well, the fact that the standing man wasn't able to use safety belts, in addition to being forced to stand, makes it seem to me that he should've gotten a full refund plus compensation for inconvenience and putting his safety at risk.

The flight attendants ... they sound like disasters. But who knows. I wasn't there.

[Warren Dew]

Now, you talk about "ripping off taxpayers." The reality is that air travel in the US became, after privatization, among the least expensive in the world.

You mean, "after deregulation", not "after privatization", right? And of course, if you want to know what airlines were like before deregulation, that's easy too - just fly business class. Both the price and the service will be similar to what was there "in the old days".

As for ripping off taxpayers, that of course was a ridiculous characterization - unlike the auto companies, the airlines have never been bailed out of their bankruptcies with taxpayer money.

[charlou]

It could be easily sorted by a narrow gate at check in. If you don't fit through you have to buy another seat

I like this ... but I think it should be done at point of booking, and it should be how much space is needed while seated.

Fat people take up more space. PCness should not override the pragmatic acknowledgment and solutions that entails.

[Warren Dew]

Yeah, well, the fact that the standing man wasn't able to use safety belts, in addition to being forced to stand, makes it seem to me that he should've gotten a full refund plus compensation for inconvenience and putting his safety at risk.

Again, this is assuming that the standing man's version of the story is entirely correct. We haven't heard the other side.

The flight attendants ... they sound like disasters. But who knows. I wasn't there.

What do you think the flight attendants should have done?

[Warren Dew]

It could be easily sorted by a narrow gate at check in. If you don't fit through you have to buy another seat

I like this ... but I think it should be done at point of booking, and it should be how much space is needed while seated.

Fat people take up more space. PCness should not override the pragmatic acknowledgment and solutions that entails.

It's kind of difficult to make them go through a gate when booking online. From a practical standpoint, I think you'd need to do it at check in, even if in some cases you could do it earlier as well.

[hadespussercats]

Yeah, well, the fact that the standing man wasn't able to use safety belts, in addition to being forced to stand, makes it seem to me that he should've gotten a full refund plus compensation for inconvenience and putting his safety at risk.

Again, this is assuming that the standing man's version of the story is entirely correct. We haven't heard the other side.

The flight attendants ... they sound like disasters. But who knows. I wasn't there.

What do you think the flight attendants should have done?

Well, as we both have pointed out, there are large portions of the story missing. But the attendants could have noted the seating difficulty before take-off and delayed the flight until the problem was resolved one way or another-- finding a passenger who'd willingly be bumped, for instance. Or getting the obese man on to another flight where there was room.

Or even failing that, I'd like to know why the illegality of the standing passenger sitting in one of the attendants' seats trumps the illegality of him flying without restraints at takeoff or landing. I mean, I realize that generally passengers don't sit in attendants' seats, but generally passengers have seats of their own they can sit in. And the attendants are being paid to be on that plane, and attend to the needs of passengers. Quite a contrast to the passenger who paid to sit, but wasn't allowed to.

[Cunt]

There is TREMENDOUS pressure on airlines to not delay. As long as they push back from the gate, they can boast another 'on time departure' (even if they let you stew on the ramp for another 8 hours)

The counter staff are at fault, along with a shitty system which can fail in this manner.

There was a flight a few years ago here, where a bunch of fat good-old-boys got on a plane to go fishing. They all weighed considerably more than was allotted for an 'average passenger', and the pilot didn't twig.

Flipped the plane over in Yellowknife Bay. Good fucking thing no-one died (that time)

As to the FAs' moving, no. They have specific roles which are more important than a fat guys comfort. Or a skinny guys. Leave them right where they are. Oh, and do everyone a favour and obey them as if your life depends on it, in the event of an emergency.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

One tip. Never arrive at a Southwestern boarding gate with a prisoner in handcuffs. They get very grumpy.

[devogue]

Surely the skinny bloke could have sat on the fat man's knee. This is a non-story.

[Schneibster]

Your proofs that they are "colluding?"

The bag fees. Duh.