That Obama eligibility issue could come back again

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Seth
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Re: That Obama eligibility issue could come back again

Post by Seth » Sat Mar 10, 2012 7:18 pm

Coito ergo sum wrote:Were Washington, Jefferson and Adams "Citizens of the United States at the time the the Constitution was adopted?"

Hmm... there appears to be a legitimate question here.

One - we don't have any birth certificates for them.

Two - they were definitely, indisputably, not born in the United States, and not born citizens of the US, since they were born when there was no US at all.

Three - after the US became a country, they were never naturalized or otherwise made a citizen by the federal government.

Apparently, it was just "assumed" that they were citizens.

They certainly were not natural born citizens under the Vattel theory.

They ought to be retroactively stripped of their citizenship, and their Presidencies expunged from the record.
Except you forgot about the dead language in Article II which explicitly deals with this issue: "No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States."

The red language is now dead letter law because the last person who was a "Citizen" when the Constitution was ratified is long dead. The blue language is still in effect and would apply to a natural born citizen (born to two US citizen parents) who was nonetheless born in or was taken to a foreign land where he/she lived. To be eligible, that person would have had to have spent at least 14 years (whether cumulatively or consecutively is somewhat unclear, though I'd lean towards cumulatively) physically in the United States.

Once again this is clear indication of the concern of the Founders about the effects of foreign influence on the office of President. Even a natural born citizen who may have actually been born in the US to two US parents might not be eligible to hold office if that person has not spent sufficient time in the US to meet the requirement.

I suspect the 14 year time limit was actually an expediency intended to deal with the amount of time between the formation of the United States of America (1776) and the Ratification of the Constitution (1788) and was intended to make sure that the first couple of Presidents were resident in the US during the Revolutionary War and/or during the formation of the nation. But it still applies today.

Your sarcastic diatribe is obviously a non sequitur.
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apophenia
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Re: That Obama eligibility issue could come back again

Post by apophenia » Sat Mar 10, 2012 9:40 pm




What did they do for presidents until the United States was at least 14 years old?


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Re: That Obama eligibility issue could come back again

Post by Tyrannical » Sat Mar 10, 2012 9:56 pm

apophenia wrote:What did they do for presidents until the United States was at least 14 years old?
If you are going to troll, at least put a little more effort and research into it.
A rational skeptic should be able to discuss and debate anything, no matter how much they may personally disagree with that point of view. Discussing a subject is not agreeing with it, but understanding it.

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Re: That Obama eligibility issue could come back again

Post by apophenia » Sat Mar 10, 2012 10:07 pm

Tyrannical wrote:
apophenia wrote:What did they do for presidents until the United States was at least 14 years old?
If you are going to troll, at least put a little more effort and research into it.
Back atcha, Tranny babe.


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Re: That Obama eligibility issue could come back again

Post by Tyrannical » Sat Mar 10, 2012 10:13 pm

apophenia wrote:
Tyrannical wrote:
apophenia wrote:What did they do for presidents until the United States was at least 14 years old?
If you are going to troll, at least put a little more effort and research into it.
Back atcha, Tranny babe.
I should have you know that I do make the effort to research my points, especially the more annoying ones.
A rational skeptic should be able to discuss and debate anything, no matter how much they may personally disagree with that point of view. Discussing a subject is not agreeing with it, but understanding it.

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Re: That Obama eligibility issue could come back again

Post by Coito ergo sum » Sat Mar 10, 2012 11:11 pm

apophenia wrote:What did they do for presidents until the United States was at least 14 years old?
Anyone who was a citizen of the US at the time of adoption of the Constitution was eligible. The clause is confusing, though, because there is no explanation of who was and was not a citizen of the US at the time of adoption of the Constitution. But, Washington was born in Virginia, Adams in Massachusetts, Jefferson in Virginia - who's next? Madison and then Monroe, also Virginians. John Quincy Adams, John Adams' son, was born in Massachussetts.

Next was Andrew Jackson - he was born in either North or South Carolina, but he was born of "two immigrant parents." His father died before becoming a citizen.

So, under the Seth theory, Andrew Jackson was ineligible to be President of the US, because he inherited his father's citizenship -- British. So, Jackson, not having ever been naturalized a citizen of the US, ought never have been permitted to serve. Either that, or....I suppose, ....one could also explore the possibility that... well...nobody gave a crap where his parents were born. :ask:

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Re: That Obama eligibility issue could come back again

Post by apophenia » Sun Mar 11, 2012 12:06 am

Tyrannical wrote:
apophenia wrote:
Tyrannical wrote:
apophenia wrote:What did they do for presidents until the United States was at least 14 years old?
If you are going to troll, at least put a little more effort and research into it.
Back atcha, Tranny babe.
I should have you know that I do make the effort to research my points, especially the more annoying ones.
Oh, God, I am so sorry. I didn't realize your opinions were the result of concerted effort and research. I sincerely apologize.


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Re: That Obama eligibility issue could come back again

Post by amused » Sun Mar 11, 2012 12:11 am

apophenia wrote:
Tyrannical wrote:
apophenia wrote:
Tyrannical wrote:
apophenia wrote:What did they do for presidents until the United States was at least 14 years old?
If you are going to troll, at least put a little more effort and research into it.
Back atcha, Tranny babe.
I should have you know that I do make the effort to research my points, especially the more annoying ones.
Oh, God, I am so sorry. I didn't realize your opinions were the result of concerted effort and research. I sincerely apologize.
:hehe:

Stealing this for the sig!

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