Eytie sparrow is species.

Post Reply
User avatar
Horwood Beer-Master
"...a complete Kentish hog"
Posts: 7061
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 2:34 pm
Location: Wandering somewhere around the Darenth Valley - Kent
Contact:

Eytie sparrow is species.

Post by Horwood Beer-Master » Mon Sep 19, 2011 4:32 pm

It's official..,

http://www.bbc.co.uk/nature/14947902
Italian sparrow joins family as a new species.

Scientists in Norway say they have conclusive genetic evidence that sparrows recently evolved a third species.

The Italian sparrow, they argue, is a cross between the ubiquitous house sparrow and the Spanish sparrow.

Whether it is a distinct species has been the subject of a long scientific debate.

The Oslo team say in the journal Molecular Ecology that their evidence resolves the question.

Many bird-watching guides already identify the Italian sparrow as a separate species.

But this study, led by evolutionary biologist Glenn-Peter Saetre from the University of Oslo, is a genetic snapshot that appears to settle the debate.

The researchers studied populations of Italian and Spanish sparrows that share the same habitat in the south-east of Italy.

Image

They took blood samples from the birds in order to extract DNA.

"By examining the genetics, we have shown conclusively that the Italian sparrow is of mixed origin - it is a hybrid of the house sparrow and the Spanish sparrow," Dr Saetre told BBC Nature.

"Second, and perhaps equally important - it is not reproducing with the Spanish sparrow, even though the two birds live side-by-side."

If the birds had been breeding, the scientists say that they would have found genetic "intermediates" - birds with genes from both species.

"But we didn't find this, so we think [the two species] have formed some kind of reproductive barrier to each other," Prof Saetre said.

"Either the [Italian sparrows] just don't like the look of the [Spanish sparrows] or perhaps they have evolved a different breeding season.

"We're not sure what the reason is, but they are not reproducing."

In evolutionary biology, the definition of a distinct species is not entirely clear-cut.

William Amos, professor of evolutionary genetics at the University of Cambridge, explained: "I think the best definition we have is the one that says that different species are those that, under natural conditions, tend not to interbreed.

"Because as soon as you have interbreeding, all those barriers [between those groups of animals] break down."

If Italian sparrows have indeed stopped reproducing with Spanish sparrows, they will gradually, generation by generation, become even more genetically distinct.

As well as providing strong evidence of this rare event - termed speciation - the scientists believe the research shows that the crossing of two species to form a new one might be "more common in nature than previously assumed".
Image

User avatar
Horwood Beer-Master
"...a complete Kentish hog"
Posts: 7061
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 2:34 pm
Location: Wandering somewhere around the Darenth Valley - Kent
Contact:

Re: Eytie sparrow is species.

Post by Horwood Beer-Master » Mon Sep 19, 2011 4:33 pm

Oh shit, this was supposed to go in Science, Technology & Environment :doh:
Image

User avatar
Ronja
Just Another Safety Nut
Posts: 10920
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:13 pm
About me: mother of 2 girls, married to fellow rat MiM, student (SW, HCI, ICT...) , self-employed editor/proofreader/translator
Location: Helsinki, Finland, EU
Contact:

Re: Eytie sparrow is species.

Post by Ronja » Mon Sep 19, 2011 4:35 pm

Horwood Beer-Master wrote:Oh shit, this was supposed to go in Science, Technology & Environment :doh:
Despair not, good sir - half a moment...

Edit: Mischief managed. :bravo:
"The internet is made of people. People matter. This includes you. Stop trying to sell everything about yourself to everyone. Don’t just hammer away and repeat and talk at people—talk TO people. It’s organic. Make stuff for the internet that matters to you, even if it seems stupid. Do it because it’s good and feels important. Put up more cat pictures. Make more songs. Show your doodles. Give things away and take things that are free." - Maureen J

"...anyone who says it’s “just the Internet” can :pawiz: . And then when they come back, they can :pawiz: again." - Tigger

User avatar
Horwood Beer-Master
"...a complete Kentish hog"
Posts: 7061
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 2:34 pm
Location: Wandering somewhere around the Darenth Valley - Kent
Contact:

Re: Eytie sparrow is species.

Post by Horwood Beer-Master » Mon Sep 19, 2011 4:46 pm

Service is fast around here! :tup: :tiphat:
Image

User avatar
Clinton Huxley
19th century monkeybitch.
Posts: 23739
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 4:34 pm
Contact:

Re: Eytie sparrow is species.

Post by Clinton Huxley » Mon Sep 19, 2011 4:59 pm

It's still not a dinosaur
"I grow old … I grow old …
I shall wear the bottoms of my trousers rolled"

AND MERRY XMAS TO ONE AND All!

Imagehttp://25kv.co.uk/date_counter.php?date ... 20counting!!![/img-sig]

User avatar
HomerJay
Posts: 2512
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 9:06 pm
Location: England
Contact:

Re: Eytie sparrow is species.

Post by HomerJay » Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:15 pm

how do we know that this isn't a GM sparrow, produced in a lab somewhere that was trying to build some new Super Sparrow?

User avatar
Clinton Huxley
19th century monkeybitch.
Posts: 23739
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 4:34 pm
Contact:

Re: Eytie sparrow is species.

Post by Clinton Huxley » Mon Sep 19, 2011 6:52 pm

It's an Italian sparrow, it can probably fly backwards.
"I grow old … I grow old …
I shall wear the bottoms of my trousers rolled"

AND MERRY XMAS TO ONE AND All!

Imagehttp://25kv.co.uk/date_counter.php?date ... 20counting!!![/img-sig]

User avatar
Horwood Beer-Master
"...a complete Kentish hog"
Posts: 7061
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 2:34 pm
Location: Wandering somewhere around the Darenth Valley - Kent
Contact:

Re: Eytie sparrow is species.

Post by Horwood Beer-Master » Wed Sep 21, 2011 5:00 pm

Clinton Huxley wrote:It's still not a dinosaur
Well it sure ain't a mammal :coffee:
Image

User avatar
Clinton Huxley
19th century monkeybitch.
Posts: 23739
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 4:34 pm
Contact:

Re: Eytie sparrow is species.

Post by Clinton Huxley » Thu Sep 22, 2011 6:13 am

Horwood Beer-Master wrote:
Clinton Huxley wrote:It's still not a dinosaur
Well it sure ain't a mammal :coffee:
It's a fish ;)
"I grow old … I grow old …
I shall wear the bottoms of my trousers rolled"

AND MERRY XMAS TO ONE AND All!

Imagehttp://25kv.co.uk/date_counter.php?date ... 20counting!!![/img-sig]

User avatar
charlou
arseist
Posts: 32528
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2012 2:36 am

Re: Eytie sparrow is species.

Post by charlou » Fri Sep 23, 2011 8:19 am

Pretty itty bitty thing.
no fences

User avatar
JimC
The sentimental bloke
Posts: 74149
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:58 am
About me: To be serious about gin requires years of dedicated research.
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: Eytie sparrow is species.

Post by JimC » Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:19 am

Genetics is fine, but the real test is putting a caged population of each together, and seeing whether they can be tempted to fuck around, then assessing the nature of any hybrids.

The biological species concept requires lots of fucking, or at least opportunities for fucking. It is highly Ratzian...

When I was assessing frog species, one couldod dissect the gonads of a male and female, mix the resulting sperm and eggs in a petri dish, and analyse the proportions of viable tads that ensued...
Nurse, where the fuck's my cardigan?
And my gin!

User avatar
Horwood Beer-Master
"...a complete Kentish hog"
Posts: 7061
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 2:34 pm
Location: Wandering somewhere around the Darenth Valley - Kent
Contact:

Re: Eytie sparrow is species.

Post by Horwood Beer-Master » Fri Sep 23, 2011 5:21 pm

Clinton Huxley wrote:
Horwood Beer-Master wrote:
Clinton Huxley wrote:It's still not a dinosaur
Well it sure ain't a mammal :coffee:
It's a fish ;)
Well a Sarcopterygian certainly...
Image

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot] and 5 guests