Does nihilism mean you have to be a miserable twat? Discuss!

[Ironclad]

Are there many serious objections (counters) to the Existentialist Nihilistic world view?

* should world view be with caps?

[Cunt]

If I understand you, Ironclad, the main objections I have heard is that people don't like it.

*and no, I don't think it should be in caps

[Geoff]

Nope! http://www.rationalia.com/forum/viewtop ... =2&t=26490

What she said.

What they said.

Carpe Diem.

[Ironclad]

If I understand you, Ironclad, the main objections I have heard is that people don't like it.

*and no, I don't think it should be in caps

Cool. When I read articles in that oracle, Wiki, about similar topics there is often a criticism
subheading, for Nihilism there is none. The only objection I can feel is that coming from the religious, but theirs is groundless from the off.

* ta

[Animavore]

There's mounting neurological evidence to show that whether you're a miserable git or a happy spa has a lot more to do with whether you're right or left brained in the frontal cortex. What your existential or philosophical views are barely factor into it.

[Jason]

life is also Awesome and pointless ...It's got nothing to do with a point. You have chosen to express nihilism only in negative terms .

You assume I have free will!

Determinism is predicated upon the premise that there is a 'point' to it all. Nihilism is predicated upon the premise that there is no 'point' to it all. Thus to claim to be a deterministic nihilist is a contradiction in terms.


Determinism is utter bollocks anyway.

[Atheist-Lite]

life is also Awesome and pointless ...It's got nothing to do with a point. You have chosen to express nihilism only in negative terms .

You assume I have free will!

Determinism is predicated upon the premise that there is a 'point' to it all. Nihilism is predicated upon the premise that there is no 'point' to it all. Thus to claim to be a deterministic nihilist is a contradiction in terms.


Determinism is utter bollocks anyway.

I used to believe the clock before I fell down the rabbit hole. Now I'm not sure if the clock existed five minutes ago. I don't think it matters.

[apophenia]

Dear Pordfrefect. Please provide me with the name of your supplier. I would dearly like to obtain large quantities of whatever it is you are smoking. Determinism is nothing more than the belief that (some) effects follow causes in a non-random, non-arbitrary fashion. Apples upon detaching themselves from trees soon find themselves nestled among the grass. That's determinism. Whether the mind is deterministic or not is an open question, but since nihilism is concerned with the question of whether objective meaning -- meaning independent of minds -- can exist, there is no necessary contradiction here. Many philosophers and thinkers embrace what is known as compatibilism, wherein we can have deterministic minds without giving up the ideas of choice, moral responsibility or meaning.

Now, "'scuse me while I whip this out."

As a taoist, I must introduce a fundamental aspect of Taoist thought which is relative to such questions as this.
It is most clearly expressed in the traditional Taoist painting known as The Vinegar Tasters.



The allegorical composition depicts the three founders of China's major religious and philosophical traditions: Confucianism, Buddhism, and Taoism. The theme in the painting has been interpreted as favoring Taoism and critical of the others.

The three men are dipping their fingers in a vat of vinegar and tasting it; one man reacts with a sour expression, one reacts with a bitter expression, and one reacts with a sweet expression. The three men are Confucius, Buddha, and Laozi, respectively. Each man's expression represents the predominant attitude of his religion: Confucianism saw life as sour, in need of rules to correct the degeneration of people; Buddhism saw life as bitter, dominated by pain and suffering; and Taoism saw life as fundamentally good in its natural state.

-- Wikipedia, The Vinegar Tasters

That being said, I hold views in addition to my basic Taoist stand which I'll borrow from my writings elsewhere in a fit of cross-posting fury.

I think those who consider nihilism sad or depressing are clueless. Emotions are reactions to facts of the world. Sadness, specifically to the experience of loss. What exactly is it that the nihilist has lost for her to feel sad about? Nothing. You can no more be legitimately sad about a meaning which does not exist than you can hate a god who isn't there. That being said, transitions can be messy. If you are dragging behind you the remnants of a world you are leaving, then sure, we're funny that way. I've spoken with a few ex-theists who experience profound loss and sadness at the change in their world. I fully empathize; I'm sure many of us can. Like the rawness that accompanies the end of a relationship, as animals, we weren't built to go from 0 to 60, and then stop on a dime.

Someone elsewhere brought up the question of metaphysical nihilism, which, upon consulting Wikipedia is not at all what they described. Their suggestion was that it was the idea that nothing exists. That idea, I don't have any fundamental objection toward. As a nascent anti-realist, it is not out of place in my world. However, I will also confess to being a nascent Platonic realist. How I reconcile the two is perhaps better answered by the question of whether I have reconciled the two, the answer to which is no. Flying by the seat of my hot pants, my assessment is that the two conflict in appearance, but not in fact. I am developing about three main lines of thinking, and I am more concerned with exploring each on its own merits independent of any grand synthesis (and one of them is a grand synthesis itself, so work to do, but all work and no play makes jill hopelessly anti-social).

FWIW.

[Ironclad]

I'm in love..

[Atheist-Lite]

I'm in love..

I'm already taken.

[charlou]

[Ironclad]

Do tell us more Jill/apophenia, I like your insight, are you a researcher or tutor, or something else altogether? I wonder as you say you are busy..

Flying by the seat of my your hot pants

Which sounds nice

[Cunt]

Dear Pordfrefect. Please provide me with the name of your supplier. I would dearly like to obtain large quantities of whatever it is you are smoking. Determinism is nothing more than the belief that (some) effects follow causes in a non-random, non-arbitrary fashion. Apples upon detaching themselves from trees soon find themselves nestled among the grass. That's determinism. Whether the mind is deterministic or not is an open question, but since nihilism is concerned with the question of whether objective meaning -- meaning independent of minds -- can exist, there is no necessary contradiction here. Many philosophers and thinkers embrace what is known as compatibilism, wherein we can have deterministic minds without giving up the ideas of choice, moral responsibility or meaning.

Now, "'scuse me while I whip this out."

As a taoist, I must introduce a fundamental aspect of Taoist thought which is relative to such questions as this.
It is most clearly expressed in the traditional Taoist painting known as The Vinegar Tasters.



The allegorical composition depicts the three founders of China's major religious and philosophical traditions: Confucianism, Buddhism, and Taoism. The theme in the painting has been interpreted as favoring Taoism and critical of the others.

The three men are dipping their fingers in a vat of vinegar and tasting it; one man reacts with a sour expression, one reacts with a bitter expression, and one reacts with a sweet expression. The three men are Confucius, Buddha, and Laozi, respectively. Each man's expression represents the predominant attitude of his religion: Confucianism saw life as sour, in need of rules to correct the degeneration of people; Buddhism saw life as bitter, dominated by pain and suffering; and Taoism saw life as fundamentally good in its natural state.

-- Wikipedia, The Vinegar Tasters

That being said, I hold views in addition to my basic Taoist stand which I'll borrow from my writings elsewhere in a fit of cross-posting fury.

I think those who consider nihilism sad or depressing are clueless. Emotions are reactions to facts of the world. Sadness, specifically to the experience of loss. What exactly is it that the nihilist has lost for her to feel sad about? Nothing. You can no more be legitimately sad about a meaning which does not exist than you can hate a god who isn't there. That being said, transitions can be messy. If you are dragging behind you the remnants of a world you are leaving, then sure, we're funny that way. I've spoken with a few ex-theists who experience profound loss and sadness at the change in their world. I fully empathize; I'm sure many of us can. Like the rawness that accompanies the end of a relationship, as animals, we weren't built to go from 0 to 60, and then stop on a dime.

Someone elsewhere brought up the question of metaphysical nihilism, which, upon consulting Wikipedia is not at all what they described. Their suggestion was that it was the idea that nothing exists. That idea, I don't have any fundamental objection toward. As a nascent anti-realist, it is not out of place in my world. However, I will also confess to being a nascent Platonic realist. How I reconcile the two is perhaps better answered by the question of whether I have reconciled the two, the answer to which is no. Flying by the seat of my hot pants, my assessment is that the two conflict in appearance, but not in fact. I am developing about three main lines of thinking, and I am more concerned with exploring each on its own merits independent of any grand synthesis (and one of them is a grand synthesis itself, so work to do, but all work and no play makes jill hopelessly anti-social).

FWIW.

Fuck you're hot.

[Jason]

As a taoist, my opinion isn't worth the electrons it takes to promulgate my bullshit.

Fixed that for you.

I think I've read more philosophy and spent more time studying it than you have diddling yourself, which, judging by the quality of your post, is a lot. Start a new thread on it if you like.

[apophenia]

As a taoist, my opinion isn't worth the electrons it takes to promulgate my bullshit.

Fixed that for you.

I think I've read more philosophy and spent more time studying it than you have diddling yourself, which, judging by the quality of your post, is a lot. Start a new thread on it if you like.

Indeed, I am woefully ignorant. I seem to have a long way to go to master such philosophical refinements as to how to make a successful argument from authority. If you could point me in the direction of some texts which explain this art, I will be eternally in your debt.

I confess, I have just this year begun properly studying the subject of philosophy, and would be delighted for any help along that journey you can provide.
I make no claims to any specific competence in the subject.

I am somewhat confused by something though, and I hope you can clear up my confusion. Your response, to my comprehension, was meant to imply disagreement with my assertions. Yet nowhere did you expound upon the nature of my error. If you would, I believe an exposition of the subject would be quite germane to this thread, and would be greatly appreciated. I confess to some dabblings in the issues of free will, determinism and nihilism, but I have not learned the subject to any respectable competence to speak of, and it is far down the list of subjects I wish to study, nearing the very bottom. If you could entertain me with your wisdom, I will be most appreciative.