Capitalism, The Best Solution to Poverty

[JimC]

Living in this current world inevitably means that you consume at least some of the material products of capitalism. That does not invalidate one's ability to criticise the capitalist model. It is possible to be more selective in your consumer choices, and to generally reduce consumption of unsustainable or unethically produced goods, but it would be absurd to pretend such consumption can be totally eliminated, or that it is hypocritical to criticise capitalism while living inside it.

[Cunt]

Yeah, we're all trapped.

I don't have to like it, though.

[Brian Peacock]

Living in this current world inevitably means that you consume at least some of the material products of capitalism. That does not invalidate one's ability to criticise the capitalist model. It is possible to be more selective in your consumer choices, and to generally reduce consumption of unsustainable or unethically produced goods, but it would be absurd to pretend such consumption can be totally eliminated, or that it is hypocritical to criticise capitalism while living inside it.

And besides, the tech that went into developing phones and laptops etc was almost entirely publicly funded - and the people who build these things are workers, whose labour is exploited for profit.

[macdoc]

Exploited ??!!

[Brian Peacock]

You think the people who assembled your iPhone weren't exploited I take it?

[pErvinalia]

Macdoc believes in a fantasy world were capitalism isn't rapacious and exploitative. He probably even thinks that capitalism is the best solution to poverty...

[Cunt]

I like it because it allows us wealthy folk to keep the slaves in a faraway country (except for the Temporary Foreign Worker program winners)

They couldn't make my iphone here in the modern world. We have rules around pollution, building codes, right-to-repair. It isn't just the slaves, the list goes on and on...

[Tero]

The 25 richest Americans, including Jeff Bezos, Warren Buffett and Elon Musk, paid a “true tax rate” of just 3.4% between 2014 and 2018, according to an investigation by ProPublica, despite their collective net worth rising by more than $400bn in the same period.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... n-musk-tax

[Sean Hayden]

So, this is just another thing Trump got right eh?

[macdoc]

Macdoc believes in a fantasy world were capitalism isn't rapacious and exploitative. He probably even thinks that capitalism is the best solution to poverty...

Don't be an ass....

People are rapacious and exploit others...doesn't matter what particular ism you want to trumpet or defend. Institutions are developed to curb these negative aspects of human nature.

There is nothing inherent to capitalism that is detrimental to the public weal.I think the salient term is "grow up"

......and don't put words in other people's mouths.

[JimC]

People are rapacious and exploit others...doesn't matter what particular ism you want to trumpet or defend. Institutions are developed to curb these negative aspects of human nature.

There is nothing inherent to capitalism that is detrimental to the public weal.I think the salient term is "grow up"

For a start, capitalism means that those who end up with significantly more wealth than others have the political power to maintain much of that ability to control, often through the generations. Sure, a variety of institutions (including unions) can partly counteract the worst effects, to degrees that differ greatly across the world.

But the very nature of capitalism means that it is indeed "detrimental to the public weal", in potential and often in fact. Its essence is selfish, and things such as pollution, or caring for communities, human or natural, are not in the mandate of corporations - their loyalty is to shareholders and the financial bottom line, not the public or any concept of public responsibility. Some may be influenced by public opinion; profits may fall if they are perceived to be destructive, but often the response is more spin than substance. Again, public institutions in some jurisdictions may do a fair job of mitigating the side effects, but a global economy allows corporations to selectively deal with corrupt or inefficient institutions as they choose.

I am not unaware of the positive aspects of free enterprise, largely consisting of an ability to innovate more freely than many, somewhat stodgy government institutions. Nor am I unaware that many past attempts at dismantling the capitalist system have unleashed authoritarian nightmares. But recognition of both those realities doesn't mean that capitalism itself is immune from criticism.

[pErvinalia]

Macdoc believes in a fantasy world were capitalism isn't rapacious and exploitative. He probably even thinks that capitalism is the best solution to poverty...

Don't be an ass....

People are rapacious and exploit others...doesn't matter what particular ism you want to trumpet or defend. Institutions are developed to curb these negative aspects of human nature.

There is nothing inherent to capitalism that is detrimental to the public weal.I think the salient term is "grow up"

......and don't put words in other people's mouths.

Capitalism is based on competition as opposed to cooperation. It breeds selfishness, which encourages rapacious and exploitative behaviour. Capitalism is more that an economic system. It's an approach to the organisation of society. It's harmful to social cohesion.

[pErvinalia]

The idea that it's "human nature" to be rapacious and exploitative is nonsense, and a dismal view of humanity.

[pErvinalia]

There's a small percentage of sociopaths in the population, and these are the people that benefit most from capitalism.

[JimC]

The idea that it's "human nature" to be rapacious and exploitative is nonsense, and a dismal view of humanity.

I partially disagree. I think that our evolved nature has many components, none of which are inevitable or deterministic, but they manifest as tendencies. Selfish behaviour is inevitably part of this mix. Within close groupings, this is mostly mitigated by the very real need for co-operation, but typically, that is "within tribe". Our aggressive tendencies usually manifest as fear or hatred towards "out groups" of whatever shape or form.

Mature, rational reflection can ally itself with the co-operative tendencies that are a vital part of our hominid heritage, and work effectively against the selfish tendencies. At least if the social structure encourages that process; capitalism typically does not...