Bullshit is useful

Post Reply
User avatar
Sean Hayden
Microagressor
Posts: 12788
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2010 3:55 pm
About me: philobarbaros
Contact:

Re: Bullshit is useful

Post by Sean Hayden » Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:44 am

Thanks Brian. I don't see myself as defending Trump, but rather as asking for a more thoughtful examination of events.

That's why I accused you Seabass of pretending to explain things you clearly haven't. The response team isn't Pence for example. It's several people. It's not a front to hide a disaster, it's several people, experts in their fields, working to respond to the virus. Your interpretation is great for political purposes, but unfortunately it is absolute shit as an examination of what actually happened/is happening.
The primary product of pine is pineapple.

User avatar
Hermit
Posts: 21805
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 12:44 am
Contact:

Re: Bullshit is useful

Post by Hermit » Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:49 am

Sean Hayden wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:44 am
The response team isn't Pence for example. It's several people.
You mean the few remaining ones that have not been sacked by... Damn. I can't mention the person's name. You'd just get upset.
God is the mysterious veil under which we hide our ignorance of the cause. - Léo Errera


God created the universe
God just exists

User avatar
Sean Hayden
Microagressor
Posts: 12788
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2010 3:55 pm
About me: philobarbaros
Contact:

Re: Bullshit is useful

Post by Sean Hayden » Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:50 am

JimC wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:53 am
Without disputing the poor display of leadership by Trump which has contributed to your coronavirus woes, I think that making him the virtual sole target of criticism obscures the structural failings in the US system of government and some aspects of the "personal freedom at all costs" ethos that seems to permeate American society. Now, systematic failings have clearly occurred in countries all over the world, including Australia, so I'm not indulging in anti-American rhetoric for the sake of it. However, there is a spectrum of pandemic response competency, and the undeniable fact is that currently, the mathematical rate of increase in the US is the highest in the world:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-26/ ... d/12089028

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-26/ ... s/12088076
I also suspect a big part of our failure is how we are. I brought this up earlier. But how do you quantify that? --this is really a research project-- At least we can bullshit! :biggrin:
The primary product of pine is pineapple.

User avatar
Sean Hayden
Microagressor
Posts: 12788
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2010 3:55 pm
About me: philobarbaros
Contact:

Re: Bullshit is useful

Post by Sean Hayden » Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:51 am

Hermit wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:49 am
Sean Hayden wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:44 am
The response team isn't Pence for example. It's several people.
You mean the few remaining ones that have not been sacked by... Damn. I can't mention the person's name. You'd just get upset.
:fp:
The primary product of pine is pineapple.

User avatar
Seabass
Posts: 5290
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 7:32 pm
About me: Anti-fascist
Location: Fascist USA
Contact:

Re: Bullshit is useful

Post by Seabass » Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:04 am

Sean Hayden wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:44 am
Thanks Brian. I don't see myself as defending Trump, but rather as asking for a more thoughtful examination of events.

That's why I accused you Seabass of pretending to explain things you clearly haven't. The response team isn't Pence for example. It's several people. It's not a front to hide a disaster, it's several people, experts in their fields, working to respond to the virus. Your interpretation is great for political purposes, but unfortunately it is absolute shit as an examination of what actually happened/is happening.
What else is there to explain?

Obama had created two pandemic response teams. Trump dismantled them.
Some of those pandemic response people were stationed in China. Trump recalled them.
Trump could have used the powers of his office to a) prepare the nation mentally for the danger to come, and b) convert American industry over to getting hospitals equipped to weather the storm, and c) give guidelines and mandates regarding social distancing, temporarily closing businesses, and so on. He did none of that. Instead, he lied to our faces for two months and said it would disappear in the warm months like a "miracle".
He also insisted on calling it a Chinese virus, which happened to coincide with an increase in violent attacks on Asian American.
We saw other countries handling the pandemic better in real time. We could have emulated them but didn't.
He could have used the WHO test to start testing Americans, but instead he decided to wait for private American companies to come up with their own.

This whole thing has been a disaster from top to bottom. What else is there to explain?

And by the way, I never said that Trump's response team consisted only of Pence. I said Trump put the creationist Pence in charge. Trump had to cobble together an ad-hoc pandemic team because he fired the existing ones. Even if team Pence is as effective as the ones Trump fired (which I doubt), they were already behind the curve thanks to Trump.
"His primary rules were: never allow the public to cool off; never admit a fault or wrong; never concede that there may be some good in your enemy; never leave room for alternatives; never accept blame; concentrate on one enemy at a time and blame him for everything that goes wrong; people will believe a big lie sooner than a little one; and if you repeat it frequently enough people will sooner or later believe it." —From the OSS’s psychological profile of Adolf Hitler

User avatar
Sean Hayden
Microagressor
Posts: 12788
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2010 3:55 pm
About me: philobarbaros
Contact:

Re: Bullshit is useful

Post by Sean Hayden » Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:55 am

A lot.

Just a quick example, the CDC recommended waiting for their tests and an expert on the response team --forget her name-- backed it up. Your interpretation that Trump just waited so we could use our own tests doesn't come close to explaining what actually happened.

As for what he could have done regarding industry etc, that again is asserted without context and is just 20/20 hindsight. I like Jim's reasoning regarding a possible explanation for early inaction, it's not the whole story obviously.
The primary product of pine is pineapple.

User avatar
Seabass
Posts: 5290
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 7:32 pm
About me: Anti-fascist
Location: Fascist USA
Contact:

Re: Bullshit is useful

Post by Seabass » Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:44 am

"His primary rules were: never allow the public to cool off; never admit a fault or wrong; never concede that there may be some good in your enemy; never leave room for alternatives; never accept blame; concentrate on one enemy at a time and blame him for everything that goes wrong; people will believe a big lie sooner than a little one; and if you repeat it frequently enough people will sooner or later believe it." —From the OSS’s psychological profile of Adolf Hitler

User avatar
Sean Hayden
Microagressor
Posts: 12788
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2010 3:55 pm
About me: philobarbaros
Contact:

Re: Bullshit is useful

Post by Sean Hayden » Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:52 am

Yes, you've already said he could have done it. There's quite a bit of why they didn't in the npr link, thanks.
The primary product of pine is pineapple.

User avatar
Cunt
Lumpy Vagina Bloodfart
Posts: 11202
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 3:10 am
Contact:

Re: Bullshit is useful

Post by Cunt » Thu Mar 26, 2020 2:32 pm

JimC wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:53 am
However, there is a spectrum of pandemic response competency, and the undeniable fact is that currently, the mathematical rate of increase in the US is the highest in the world:
I don't agree yet. I think they don't know a critical piece (and I'm hopeful by nature)

If this is a much more communicable disease than first thought, and it is in fact already rampant (infecting a lot more people than is known) then the death rate would change, in a VERY favourable way.

What I mean is, if in fact more of the population is infected, but not dying, the numbers will get better (wrt lethality) while getting worse (wrt infection rate)

It's early, and I usually don't like to listen to politicians, but that Dr. F guy suggested that we should feel like we are over-reacting, since that is the best place to be in situations like this.

As we learn more (testing improves/spreads, treatment data improves) we will be able to say more. I'm hopeful and staying there.
Sean Hayden wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:51 am

:fp:
Um, sir...SIR...you shouldn't be touching your face.
Shit, Piss, Cock, Cunt, Motherfucker, Cocksucker and Tits.
-various artists
Adults have no good arguments for a longer waistband, but it's hilarious to watch some make them anyway.

User avatar
Seabass
Posts: 5290
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 7:32 pm
About me: Anti-fascist
Location: Fascist USA
Contact:

Re: Bullshit is useful

Post by Seabass » Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:26 pm

JimC wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:53 am
Without disputing the poor display of leadership by Trump which has contributed to your coronavirus woes, I think that making him the virtual sole target of criticism obscures the structural failings in the US system of government and some aspects of the "personal freedom at all costs" ethos that seems to permeate American society.
Do you think the Obama administration would have handled this pandemic better?

And for the record, no one has said that Trump and Trump alone is solely to blame for this mess. I have stated numerous times that his idiot supporters also share some blame, as do his enablers and sycophants, as well as the entire Republican party and the Republican ideology, and also the whole right-wing media ecosystem. So this notion that anyone here blames Trump and only Trump is a bit of a strawman. Still, he is the head of the executive branch, he has a great deal of power at his disposal, so he does bear much of the responsibility for this calamity.
"His primary rules were: never allow the public to cool off; never admit a fault or wrong; never concede that there may be some good in your enemy; never leave room for alternatives; never accept blame; concentrate on one enemy at a time and blame him for everything that goes wrong; people will believe a big lie sooner than a little one; and if you repeat it frequently enough people will sooner or later believe it." —From the OSS’s psychological profile of Adolf Hitler

User avatar
Cunt
Lumpy Vagina Bloodfart
Posts: 11202
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 3:10 am
Contact:

Re: Bullshit is useful

Post by Cunt » Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:56 pm

Seabass wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:26 pm
Do you think the Obama administration would have handled this pandemic better?

And for the record, no one has said that Trump and Trump alone is solely to blame for this mess. I have stated numerous times that his idiot supporters also share some blame, as do his enablers and sycophants, as well as the entire Republican party and the Republican ideology, and also the whole right-wing media ecosystem. So this notion that anyone here blames Trump and only Trump is a bit of a strawman. Still, he is the head of the executive branch, he has a great deal of power at his disposal, so he does bear much of the responsibility for this calamity.
How DARE he not put emissions requirements, and diversity language into the emergency bill?!?!?

Good thing the Democrats were there to add hundreds of pages of such pork, or what would 'the Woke' do during this crisis?
Shit, Piss, Cock, Cunt, Motherfucker, Cocksucker and Tits.
-various artists
Adults have no good arguments for a longer waistband, but it's hilarious to watch some make them anyway.

User avatar
laklak
Posts: 18458
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:07 pm
About me: My preferred pronoun is "Massah"
Location: Tannhauser Gate
Contact:

Re: Bullshit is useful

Post by laklak » Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:03 pm

It it's all the GOPs fault then why are the states in the worst shape run by Democrats?
Yeah well that's just, like, your opinion, man.

User avatar
Cunt
Lumpy Vagina Bloodfart
Posts: 11202
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 3:10 am
Contact:

Re: Bullshit is useful

Post by Cunt » Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:05 pm

laklak wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:03 pm
It it's all the GOPs fault then why are the states in the worst shape run by Democrats?
Oh come on...California is a PARADISE. I saw it on the TV.
Shit, Piss, Cock, Cunt, Motherfucker, Cocksucker and Tits.
-various artists
Adults have no good arguments for a longer waistband, but it's hilarious to watch some make them anyway.

User avatar
Seabass
Posts: 5290
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 7:32 pm
About me: Anti-fascist
Location: Fascist USA
Contact:

Re: Bullshit is useful

Post by Seabass » Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:10 pm

laklak wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:03 pm
It it's all the GOPs fault then why are the states in the worst shape run by Democrats?
Is this a serious question? You can't be serious.
"His primary rules were: never allow the public to cool off; never admit a fault or wrong; never concede that there may be some good in your enemy; never leave room for alternatives; never accept blame; concentrate on one enemy at a time and blame him for everything that goes wrong; people will believe a big lie sooner than a little one; and if you repeat it frequently enough people will sooner or later believe it." —From the OSS’s psychological profile of Adolf Hitler

User avatar
Svartalf
Offensive Grail Keeper
Posts: 35374
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 12:42 pm
Location: Paris France
Contact:

Re: Bullshit is useful

Post by Svartalf » Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:22 pm

laklak wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:03 pm
It it's all the GOPs fault then why are the states in the worst shape run by Democrats?
come back from the past... before 1970 the GOP might have been better at running the country than the dems, though I'd not swear of that, but since reagan, each and every repug administration has been run by loons, warmongers, and /or incompetents.
Embrace the Darkness, it needs a hug

PC stands for "Patronizing Cocksucker" Randy Ping

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests