The Coronavirus Thread

[Cunt]

While blaming Trump, did it matter if Pelosi tried to tuck in abortion funding into the passing Coronavirus bill? Would that be partisan bullshit too? Or good crisis management by the fucking Crypt Keeper?
https://mediarightnews.com/nancy-pelosi ... ency-bill/

[Sean Hayden]

Is that what you're doing, putting some of the blame on Trump?

--//--

Anyway, if someone who doesn't live in the US but is still being hit hard by the virus would like to share the reasons for your government's failure to contain the spread, go for it.

I won't do that, but any government's response to the pandemic should be open to scrutiny. As the old aphorism goes, at least when it comes to highly mobile contagions, "We're all in it together." At the moment the UK government's advice is that we wash our hand for a chorus of God Save The Queen while they try to put a £30bn package in place to bail out firms who might be hit economically. Sounds reasonable... kinda... if protecting profits is a priority I guess. No measures to protect healthcare staff or meet a possible staffing shortage due to sickness, or how they intend to process the sudden upsurge in applications for sickness benefits, or meet the need for acute and intensive care beds, or how the self-isolating self-employed or those working low-wage or zero-hours contracts or single parents are expected to cope, or what's going to happen if the schools have to close, or if not enough prison officers, fire service personnel, ambulance drivers, police officers etc don't make it into work, who's going to be delivering food to those confined to their homes, what about the homeless, those in temporary housing, rough sleepers, the elderly who depend on care services, those with mental health issues or chronic medical conditions...

In other words - they're giving the impression that everything will be fine if we wash our hands and keep humming the national anthem and the taxpayer will somehow mitigate some of the financial impact on the private sector. It's as if they're not really thinking it through, or if they have they've decided that it's just too big a job.

So no, I don't blame Johnson, or Trump for the outbreak any more than I blame the duck that sneezed on a pig that sneezed on a Chinaman, but what they choose to do (or not do) about it falls squarely on them and their administrations.

My idea is to pay everybody a UBI for the duration of the crisis and nationalise Tesco, Deliveroo and UberEats.

Are you sure? That's a long list of don't know what we're going to do-s. Many look like exactly the sort of thing pandemic planning would cover. (e.g. homeless: who handles them now? Have they been given updated intake procedures?)

You may not have the resources to make a plan work, but as Hermit pointed out that's hardly the fault of any single administration.

[Seabass]

Hey Svartalf, did you guys receive test kits from the WHO? If so, what's your major malfunction in stopping this virus? Did you act soon enough? Did you ban travel as soon as it looked serious in China? How about you Spain, what's your problem?

Iran: mass graves, really?

--//--

Besides the testing fiasco, and what seems to be nonsense to me about its magical abilities, I'm bothered by the notion that you can or should be able to get out ahead of any serious outbreak, and that if you fail somebody is to blame. Why shouldn't we count ourselves as extraordinarily lucky every time one of these things doesn't get out of control, rather than uncannily adept at putting them down? In the US people are trying to blame Trump. Are you guys blaming your leaders over there?

What do you think about that, I mean honestly?

Honestly, how can you NOT put some of the blame on Trump? Have you not been paying attention?

Firstly, he disbanded the White House's pandemic response team. Then he cut funding to the CDC. Thirdly, we've seen this virus coming for months and until just a few days ago, instead of preparing the nation for it, Trump and Fox News have been downplaying it and lying to our faces, putting out all sorts of disinformation, choosing to protect Trump's image and fragile ego instead dealing with the problem: "it's like the flu", "it's like the cold", "the numbers are going down", "everyone who wants a test can get tested", "this will go away like a miracle". That jackass called Hannity's show and suggested that it's perfectly fine for people with symptoms to go to work.

It's not just hyper-partisan Democrats that are criticizing Trump. It's epidemiologists, doctors, scientists, public health officials, ex-Republicans.

A problem with responding to this is it puts me in the position of looking like I'm defending Trump, when I'd rather defend the idea I've put forward which deals more with how unfounded a lot the blame might be at this point.

For example, Trump disbanded the White House's pandemic response team and that sounds damning, why wouldn't it, "a response team" must be the thing to stop a pandemic, right? Well, maybe. But in terms of a response plan, we've had one for yonks, and it is worked on routinely by the CDC and the Department of Health. So even without response team butts, keeping seats warm somewhere, guidance has been available and actions have been taken.

Here, read these:

https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/health-e ... te-without

Officials attribute the decrease to mass testing, improved public communication and the use of advanced technology

https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/health-e ... -china-and

While uncertainties remain, it is increasingly viewed by public health experts as a model to emulate for authorities desperate to keep Covid-19 in check

We could have emulated South Korea's approach, but instead the Trump administration, led by one Donald J. Trump, spent two months trying to gaslight the coronavirus away. Turns out, coronaviruses are immune to gaslighting, unlike Americans. The Trump administration appears to have handled this thing even worse than Italy and Iran.

[Sean Hayden]

We heard about the virus early. We knew it was serious when travel was banned, and that was right away. But we were cautioned against panic by sources like CNN who compared it to the flu and found the flu much worse. Still we prepared and I've kept an eye on the CDC for updates.

You know what really stands out from your links--which by the way cautioned against being overly optimistic--it wasn't mass testing, or the government's response, but the difference in attitudes between our populations.

For all his faults, Trump is an American.

[pErvinalia]

Trump got tested and returned negative. Oh well, there's still time for him to get it..

[JimC]

Must stock up on essentials. I only have 2 bottles of gin after the current one is drained, not enough to take me through a lock-down...

[Seabass]

We heard about the virus early. We knew it was serious when travel was banned, and that was right away. But we were cautioned against panic by sources like CNN who compared it to the flu and found the flu much worse. Still we prepared and I've kept an eye on the CDC for updates.

You know what really stands out from your links--which by the way cautioned against being overly optimistic--it wasn't mass testing, or the government's response, but the difference in attitudes between our populations.

For all his faults, Trump is an American.

So it's the US population's fault for having the wrong attitude?

Ok, well, if you're placing the blame with the dumbasses who put Trump in the White House, then sure, I can agree with that.

[Sean Hayden]

--//--

--you couldn't do South Korea here...

[Sean Hayden]

Well, we could have if it weren't for that Trump!

[Faithfree]

Trump got tested and returned negative. Oh well, there's still time for him to get it..

Final proof on the non-existence of God - any, and all of them.

[Faithfree]

Must stock up on essentials. I only have 2 bottles of gin after the current one is drained, not enough to take me through a lock-down...

Sounds serious Jim! I'm in a worst predicament - gin-wise - only half a bottle left. On a positive note, my wine supplies are pretty healthy, and will long outlast my stocks of toilet paper, so when that runs out I can at least drown my sorrows.

[Sean Hayden]

.

Trump got tested and returned negative. Oh well, there's still time for him to get it..

Final proof on the non-existence of God - any, and all of them.

It's his superior immune system. The best, evah. God tried to kill him but couldn't.

[Brian Peacock]

Is that what you're doing, putting some of the blame on Trump?

--//--

Anyway, if someone who doesn't live in the US but is still being hit hard by the virus would like to share the reasons for your government's failure to contain the spread, go for it.

I won't do that, but any government's response to the pandemic should be open to scrutiny. As the old aphorism goes, at least when it comes to highly mobile contagions, "We're all in it together." At the moment the UK government's advice is that we wash our hand for a chorus of God Save The Queen while they try to put a £30bn package in place to bail out firms who might be hit economically. Sounds reasonable... kinda... if protecting profits is a priority I guess. No measures to protect healthcare staff or meet a possible staffing shortage due to sickness, or how they intend to process the sudden upsurge in applications for sickness benefits, or meet the need for acute and intensive care beds, or how the self-isolating self-employed or those working low-wage or zero-hours contracts or single parents are expected to cope, or what's going to happen if the schools have to close, or if not enough prison officers, fire service personnel, ambulance drivers, police officers etc don't make it into work, who's going to be delivering food to those confined to their homes, what about the homeless, those in temporary housing, rough sleepers, the elderly who depend on care services, those with mental health issues or chronic medical conditions...

In other words - they're giving the impression that everything will be fine if we wash our hands and keep humming the national anthem and the taxpayer will somehow mitigate some of the financial impact on the private sector. It's as if they're not really thinking it through, or if they have they've decided that it's just too big a job.

So no, I don't blame Johnson, or Trump for the outbreak any more than I blame the duck that sneezed on a pig that sneezed on a Chinaman, but what they choose to do (or not do) about it falls squarely on them and their administrations.

My idea is to pay everybody a UBI for the duration of the crisis and nationalise Tesco, Deliveroo and UberEats.

Are you sure? That's a long list of don't know what we're going to do-s. Many look like exactly the sort of thing pandemic planning would cover. (e.g. homeless: who handles them now? Have they been given updated intake procedures?)

You may not have the resources to make a plan work, but as Hermit pointed out that's hardly the fault of any single administration.

Pretty sure. You're right: that's a long list, and doing it all, and the countless other things that need addressing, is probably beyond the ability of any government that isn't a well-resourced dictatorship. I'm criticising the UK government for not publicly acknowledging the scale, ramifications and the difficulties presented by a pandemic infection and then laying out some kind of set of priorities.

Of course, in a way they can't really win here: if they say we're going to prioritise the response of the hospitals someone will say, "But what about the elderly who need care in their own homes?" - if they say they're going to prioritise care of the elderly someone will complain, "But what about the disabled?" But at least the government could acknowledge the scope of the dilemma and justify their choices. At the moment their choice seems to be doing nothing in particular - to let the virus run its course, telling us to keep calm and wash our hands while they find a way to protect profits. To me that's a demonstration that they're not up to the challenge administratively, and that they're being cowardly politically.

[Brian Peacock]

Trump got tested and returned negative. Oh well, there's still time for him to get it..

Assuming he didn't dictate the letter from the lab of course.

[Tero]

Guy hoards a garage full of hand sanitizer etc and tries to sell it at Amazon at big price increase. Amazon cuts him off.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/14/tech ... llers.html