Capitalism, The Best Solution to Poverty

Post Reply
User avatar
Tero
Just saying
Posts: 47197
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 2010 9:50 pm
About me: 15-32-25
Location: USA
Contact:

Re: Capitalism, The Best Solution to Poverty

Post by Tero » Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:23 pm

D32684A5-660E-4E08-8E25-EC87C8C92273.png
Jobs are great! Provided you don't make stuff. Or drive it to the store.

https://www.kios.org/post/ok-real-thoug ... nomy-doing
https://esapolitics.blogspot.com
http://esabirdsne.blogspot.com/
Said Peter...what you're requesting just isn't my bag
Said Daemon, who's sorry too, but y'see we didn't have no choice
And our hands they are many and we'd be of one voice
We've come all the way from Wigan to get up and state
Our case for survival before it's too late

Turn stone to bread, said Daemon Duncetan
Turn stone to bread right away...

User avatar
Brian Peacock
Tipping cows since 1946
Posts: 37953
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:44 am
About me: Ablate me:
Location: Location: Location:
Contact:

Re: Capitalism, The Best Solution to Poverty

Post by Brian Peacock » Wed Feb 19, 2020 1:44 am

Example of the state's use of violence to secure private profit. Canada...

Rationalia relies on voluntary donations. There is no obligation of course, but if you value this place and want to see it continue please consider making a small donation towards the forum's running costs.
Details on how to do that can be found here.

.

"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."

Frank Zappa

"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
.

User avatar
laklak
Posts: 20981
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:07 pm
About me: My preferred pronoun is "Massah"
Location: Tannhauser Gate
Contact:

Re: Capitalism, The Best Solution to Poverty

Post by laklak » Wed Feb 19, 2020 1:54 am

Feudalism would be a better solution, as long as you're at least landed gentry or minor nobility. Peasants - not so much, but hey, they're just peasants.
Yeah well that's just, like, your opinion, man.

User avatar
Hermit
Posts: 25806
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 12:44 am
About me: Cantankerous grump
Location: Ignore lithpt
Contact:

Re: Capitalism, The Best Solution to Poverty

Post by Hermit » Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:55 am

laklak wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 1:54 am
Feudalism would be a better solution, as long as you're at least landed gentry or minor nobility. Peasants - not so much, but hey, they're just peasants.
You think? In feudal societies the likelihood of literally getting the axe or dying violently through human action is too high for my liking. Being a member of a royal family, major aristocrats, minor nobles or landed gentry granted no immunity from that. Everyone basically lived and died at the caprice of warlords, and the warlords themselves only lived for as long as the fortunes of war favoured them. Feudalism is a damn sight less civilised than capitalism.
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops. - Stephen J. Gould

User avatar
Tero
Just saying
Posts: 47197
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 2010 9:50 pm
About me: 15-32-25
Location: USA
Contact:

Re: Capitalism, The Best Solution to Poverty

Post by Tero » Wed Feb 19, 2020 3:00 am

We didn't have that feudalism in Finland. On the other hand, farming always sucked there.

It got to the share cropper stage though.
Last edited by Tero on Wed Feb 19, 2020 3:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
https://esapolitics.blogspot.com
http://esabirdsne.blogspot.com/
Said Peter...what you're requesting just isn't my bag
Said Daemon, who's sorry too, but y'see we didn't have no choice
And our hands they are many and we'd be of one voice
We've come all the way from Wigan to get up and state
Our case for survival before it's too late

Turn stone to bread, said Daemon Duncetan
Turn stone to bread right away...

User avatar
JimC
The sentimental bloke
Posts: 73015
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:58 am
About me: To be serious about gin requires years of dedicated research.
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: Capitalism, The Best Solution to Poverty

Post by JimC » Wed Feb 19, 2020 3:18 am

Hermit wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:55 am
laklak wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 1:54 am
Feudalism would be a better solution, as long as you're at least landed gentry or minor nobility. Peasants - not so much, but hey, they're just peasants.
You think? In feudal societies the likelihood of literally getting the axe or dying violently through human action is too high for my liking. Being a member of a royal family, major aristocrats, minor nobles or landed gentry granted no immunity from that. Everyone basically lived and died at the caprice of warlords, and the warlords themselves only lived for as long as the fortunes of war favoured them. Feudalism is a damn sight less civilised than capitalism.
So, you're saying that there was constant feuding in feudalism... :tea:
Nurse, where the fuck's my cardigan?
And my gin!

User avatar
Scot Dutchy
Posts: 19000
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:07 pm
About me: Dijkbeschermer
Location: 's-Gravenhage, Nederland
Contact:

Re: Capitalism, The Best Solution to Poverty

Post by Scot Dutchy » Wed Feb 19, 2020 8:04 am

We never had feudalism in this country. To busy cooperating building dykes and trading. The middle classes have always ruled here. Royalty was a late addition because the middle classes thought the country needed it. It is still appointed by the government and has bugger all to do with a god. Alex knows he can get kicked out any time.
"Wat is het een gezellig boel hier".

User avatar
Hermit
Posts: 25806
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 12:44 am
About me: Cantankerous grump
Location: Ignore lithpt
Contact:

Re: Capitalism, The Best Solution to Poverty

Post by Hermit » Wed Feb 19, 2020 8:20 am

Scot Dutchy wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 8:04 am
We never had feudalism in this country.
Actually, feudalism flourished in the Netherlands until the mid-15th century.

Also, Feudalism Alive and Well in 21st Century Netherlands :razzle:
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops. - Stephen J. Gould

User avatar
Scot Dutchy
Posts: 19000
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:07 pm
About me: Dijkbeschermer
Location: 's-Gravenhage, Nederland
Contact:

Re: Capitalism, The Best Solution to Poverty

Post by Scot Dutchy » Wed Feb 19, 2020 8:25 am

Hermit wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 8:20 am
Scot Dutchy wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 8:04 am
We never had feudalism in this country.
Actually, feudalism flourished in the Netherlands until the mid-15th century.

Also, Feudalism Alive and Well in 21st Century Netherlands :razzle:
Of course Hermit. Any evidence? Of course not.
"Wat is het een gezellig boel hier".

User avatar
Scot Dutchy
Posts: 19000
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:07 pm
About me: Dijkbeschermer
Location: 's-Gravenhage, Nederland
Contact:

Re: Capitalism, The Best Solution to Poverty

Post by Scot Dutchy » Wed Feb 19, 2020 8:33 am

Have a nice read and you may understand a bit more:

Geschiedenis van Nederland

Best in Dutch as English translations miss half of it.

Up until half 19th century België and Nederland were one country.
"Wat is het een gezellig boel hier".

User avatar
Hermit
Posts: 25806
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 12:44 am
About me: Cantankerous grump
Location: Ignore lithpt
Contact:

Re: Capitalism, The Best Solution to Poverty

Post by Hermit » Wed Feb 19, 2020 8:45 am

Scot Dutchy wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 8:25 am
Hermit wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 8:20 am
Scot Dutchy wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 8:04 am
We never had feudalism in this country.
Actually, feudalism flourished in the Netherlands until the mid-15th century.

Also, Feudalism Alive and Well in 21st Century Netherlands :razzle:
Of course Hermit. Any evidence? Of course not.
Sorry. I was wrong. Feudal laws applied in the Netherlands until the 17th century. And yeah, the link in my previous post was obviously to a tongue in cheek type article.
Feudalism was evidently in full vogue in the Netherlands when they were under the Holy Roman Empire; for, as early as 1346, we find the Empress Margaret granting a "handvest" (privilege) which relieved feudal tenants from military service beyond the border, unless the war had been undertaken upon the advice of the "knights, nobles and good towns.'' And so late as 1631 feudalism was of sufficient importance in the Netherlands that the celebrated Grotius devoted thereto (under the title of leen-recht) no less than three chapters (XLI-XLIII) of the second book of his famous commentary on the country's law.
https://scholarship.law.cornell.edu/cgi ... ontext=clr
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops. - Stephen J. Gould

User avatar
pErvinalia
On the good stuff
Posts: 59295
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:08 pm
About me: Spelling 'were' 'where'
Location: dystopia
Contact:

Re: Capitalism, The Best Solution to Poverty

Post by pErvinalia » Wed Feb 19, 2020 9:10 am

Dutch feudalism was the best feudalism.
Sent from my penis using wankertalk.
"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.

User avatar
Scot Dutchy
Posts: 19000
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:07 pm
About me: Dijkbeschermer
Location: 's-Gravenhage, Nederland
Contact:

Re: Capitalism, The Best Solution to Poverty

Post by Scot Dutchy » Wed Feb 19, 2020 9:51 am

Nevermind. This was the 17th century:
De burgerij werd de dominerende stand, terwijl de invloed van de adel en al eerder van de geestelijkheid verminderde. Regenten begonnen het politieke klimaat te beheersen. In vergelijking met de omringende landen was de heersende elite echter opvallend bescheiden.
De politieke macht was in de Republiek overgegaan van de Raad van State naar de Staten-Generaal die onder de soevereine provinciale staten vielen. In theorie waren alle gewesten gelijk en hadden ze alle een stem in de Staten-Generaal. Door het economische overwicht kon Holland deze echter domineren en kon de landsadvocaat van Holland Oldenbarnevelt bij gebrek aan politieke ambities van Maurits optreden als regeringsleider. Daarnaast benoemden de staten een stadhouder, in de praktijk altijd een Oranje. Naast militaire macht had deze door secrete besognes en patronage ook informele politieke invloed. Zolang de belangen van Holland en Oranje overeenkwamen, bleek deze gekunstelde situatie wonderwel te werken, maar daarbuiten kon dit het bestuur volledig verlammen, zoals tijdens het Twaalfjarig Bestand voor het eerst zou blijken. Een bestuurlijke hervorming bleef echter steken bij de vraag of de uiteindelijke macht bij Oranje dan wel bij Holland lag. Slechts Spinoza behandelde de fundamentele vraag over waar de soevereiniteit lag op universele wijze. Hij zag democratie als de best mogelijke staatsvorm.
The middle classes were taking over but there was not any feudelism.
"Wat is het een gezellig boel hier".

User avatar
Svartalf
Offensive Grail Keeper
Posts: 40340
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 12:42 pm
Location: Paris France
Contact:

Re: Capitalism, The Best Solution to Poverty

Post by Svartalf » Wed Feb 19, 2020 11:05 am

Hermit wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:55 am
laklak wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 1:54 am
Feudalism would be a better solution, as long as you're at least landed gentry or minor nobility. Peasants - not so much, but hey, they're just peasants.
You think? In feudal societies the likelihood of literally getting the axe or dying violently through human action is too high for my liking. Being a member of a royal family, major aristocrats, minor nobles or landed gentry granted no immunity from that. Everyone basically lived and died at the caprice of warlords, and the warlords themselves only lived for as long as the fortunes of war favoured them. Feudalism is a damn sight less civilised than capitalism.
You have too brutal a view of feudal societies... remember, France was nominally feudal till 1789, and the age of warlords was past, mostly since the Renaissance... I assume you'd say Germany stepped out of feudalism after the end of the 30 year war, or maybe even latter, when Wilhelm I unified the country under Prussia...
Embrace the Darkness, it needs a hug

PC stands for "Patronizing Cocksucker" Randy Ping

User avatar
Hermit
Posts: 25806
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 12:44 am
About me: Cantankerous grump
Location: Ignore lithpt
Contact:

Re: Capitalism, The Best Solution to Poverty

Post by Hermit » Wed Feb 19, 2020 11:17 am

Scot Dutchy wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 9:51 am
Nevermind. This was the 17th century:
De burgerij werd de dominerende stand, terwijl de invloed van de adel en al eerder van de geestelijkheid verminderde. Regenten begonnen het politieke klimaat te beheersen. In vergelijking met de omringende landen was de heersende elite echter opvallend bescheiden.
De politieke macht was in de Republiek overgegaan van de Raad van State naar de Staten-Generaal die onder de soevereine provinciale staten vielen. In theorie waren alle gewesten gelijk en hadden ze alle een stem in de Staten-Generaal. Door het economische overwicht kon Holland deze echter domineren en kon de landsadvocaat van Holland Oldenbarnevelt bij gebrek aan politieke ambities van Maurits optreden als regeringsleider. Daarnaast benoemden de staten een stadhouder, in de praktijk altijd een Oranje. Naast militaire macht had deze door secrete besognes en patronage ook informele politieke invloed. Zolang de belangen van Holland en Oranje overeenkwamen, bleek deze gekunstelde situatie wonderwel te werken, maar daarbuiten kon dit het bestuur volledig verlammen, zoals tijdens het Twaalfjarig Bestand voor het eerst zou blijken. Een bestuurlijke hervorming bleef echter steken bij de vraag of de uiteindelijke macht bij Oranje dan wel bij Holland lag. Slechts Spinoza behandelde de fundamentele vraag over waar de soevereiniteit lag op universele wijze. Hij zag democratie als de best mogelijke staatsvorm.
The middle classes were taking over but there was not any feudelism.
The bit you quoted is about the Republic of the Seven United Provinces of the Netherlands. It took power off the rule of the Spanish Habsburgs. The transition was gradual, and yes Habsburg rule via a number of duchies and prince-bishoprics was thoroughly feudal.

In case you missed it in my previous post, I repeat:
Feudalism was evidently in full vogue in the Netherlands when they were under the Holy Roman Empire; for, as early as 1346, we find the Empress Margaret granting a "handvest" (privilege) which relieved feudal tenants from military service beyond the border, unless the war had been undertaken upon the advice of the "knights, nobles and good towns.'' And so late as 1631 feudalism was of sufficient importance in the Netherlands that the celebrated Grotius devoted thereto (under the title of leen-recht) no less than three chapters (XLI-XLIII) of the second book of his famous commentary on the country's law.
https://scholarship.law.cornell.edu/cgi ... ontext=clr
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops. - Stephen J. Gould

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 15 guests