Evil Amazon

[Scot Dutchy]

I would have questions about the surveys? Just more data.

[JimC]

You can prise my Kindle from my cold, dead hands!

[Hermit]

You can prise my Kindle from my cold, dead hands!

I am the very model of a modern centrist-liberal...

Truth to tell, it would be exceedingly difficult, if not impossible, for us westerners to avoid buying products made in Asian sweatshops. Some of the microchips in Scott Dutchy's computer may be made in Taiwan, but most of them would be made in Foxconn-like factories. I buy my clothes at my local Target store because Target's professed policy is to source its wares from suppliers that treat their workers humanely, but I don't know what their definition of "humanely" is, nor do I know if they are flat-out lying or their suppliers are pulling the wool over their eyes.

[NineBerry]

There is a great point made in the comedy series "The Good Place". It's about heaven and hell really existing and at some point the protagonists find out that no one ever goes to Heaven. They try to find the most moral person ever and observe him for some days. He does all humanly possible to be good. Never swears. Walks so careful that he would never step on an ant. Only eats self-planted tomatoes. And so on.





And then they find out that he still goes to Hell because he has amassed too many bad Karma points.

They dig a bit deeper and find out that in today's society there is nothing you can do that will not cause suffering for other people, damage the environment and so on.






This is a really good point. Individual people making individual choices will not save the world, especially because no one can know all the indirect consequences your choices have. How can you know whether the bio seal of the tomatoes you buy can be trusted? How can you know under what circumstances the things you buy are produced?

It's nonsense to put the burden on the consumer. The state must make rules and enforce those rules. Now, here is where this collides with the idea of free trade. How can we have free trade and at the same time enforce social end ecological standards on the products we import?

[Svartalf]

shit, I should have viewed season 3

[NineBerry]

shit, I should have viewed season 3

You can still watch it and season 4 will be out sometimes next month.

[Svartalf]

even a season 4.? Aren't they jumping the shark?

[rainbow]

How can we have free trade and at the same time enforce social end ecological standards on the products we import?

It was explained to me by our (now departed) resident Libertarianista. Nobody will buy from unethical producers in the Freedumtopia.
Problem solved.

[Brian Peacock]

Bollocks. Every time you turn your stove on or flip a light switch in the US the Koch Brothers kill a kitten. What are you going to do - live in the dark and eat cold beans?

[Scot Dutchy]

You can prise my Kindle from my cold, dead hands!

Buy a Kobo far better product anyway.

[Sean Hayden]

Yeah, and go with a company that didn't stop selling ivory until recently. I'm sure such a large company has no other secrets to worry about either.

https://global.rakuten.com/corp/about/group.html

[Joe]

Hell, a company that large often doesn't know everything it's doing. They can literally have secrets from themselves.

[laklak]

Sucks to be a Chinee kid. Srsly. But what you gonna do? It be what it be.

[JimC]

NineBerry wrote:

This is a really good point. Individual people making individual choices will not save the world, especially because no one can know all the indirect consequences your choices have. How can you know whether the bio seal of the tomatoes you buy can be trusted? How can you know under what circumstances the things you buy are produced?

It's nonsense to put the burden on the consumer. The state must make rules and enforce those rules. Now, here is where this collides with the idea of free trade. How can we have free trade and at the same time enforce social end ecological standards on the products we import?

Certainly individual actions by themselves will not "save the world", and serious decisions and actions by states are clearly needed. However, individual actions can make a contribution, IMO. Not so much in the area of choosing which evil company to buy gadgets from (which triggered this discussion), but things like:
* simply buying fewer gadgets, and hanging on to ones that still work rather than buying the newest flashy model
* solar cells on your roof
* as much as possible, using public transport, bikes or shank's pony, and if you do get a car, make it an economical one (or electric)
* if possible, grow some of your own food
* where you can, avoid packaging and single-use plastics
* and another important individual action, voting for parties with the best policies on the environment
I'm sure many other simple individual choices could be added...

[Scot Dutchy]

It is all very good Jim but how about the billions Chinese, Indians, SE Asians, Russians, Americans and the many Africans that do bugger all. There is a fire the size of the Netherlands burning in east Siberia and nothing is being done just waiting for winter to put it out.