The US Healthcare Mass Debate

[Tero]

The thinking, American, is that "government does things poorly", so they want to keep it off healthcare. Thus even the insurance has to be in private hands. I blame Reagan. He started it, in recent memory.

So they...republicans...want to pay 2-3 times more to keep "government hands" off medicine.

[Seabass]

The thinking, American, is that "government does things poorly", so they want to keep it off healthcare. Thus even the insurance has to be in private hands. I blame Reagan. He started it, in recent memory.

So they...republicans...want to pay 2-3 times more to keep "government hands" off medicine.

He didn't start it. His election was just sort of the zenith of a rightward shift that had been happening during the Cold War...

[Brian Peacock]

The thinking, American, is that "government does things poorly", so they want to keep it off healthcare. Thus even the insurance has to be in private hands. I blame Reagan. He started it, in recent memory.

So they...republicans...want to pay 2-3 times more to keep "government hands" off medicine.

The government is doing things poorly at the monent, and getting worse.

[Tero]

That's the Republicans! They force every outfit, including the post office and Medicare, into situations where they can't compete. By laws. You don't want to regulate business, but you regulate gov't agencies to drive them to failure.

[pErvinalia]

Dysfunctional country.

[Brian Peacock]

The GOP are the political wing of the free market.

[JimC]

The GOP are the political wing of the free market.

More accurately, they are the political wing of a particular take on the free market, strongly coloured by reaction against anything considered socially progressive. Most of the Democratic Party are also a political wing of free enterprise, but with some sensibility to socially progressive policies...

[Sean Hayden]

They're full of shit, but they've run things for so long it's hard to see. That's why I want transparency so much.

--//--

I shocked some cashier tonight when in response to his request for charity, "it can be as little as .25 cents!" I responded that I don't believe in helping people. Yep, fuck you bud. I did help him out a bit by telling him there is a compelling progressive argument that sees charity as an excuse for his government to continue to ignore the needs of its people. I don't think my comments were welcomed by anyone in line.

[Scot Dutchy]

Government should not run the health service just control it but that is true of almost everything. Use the private sector dont pander to it.

[Sean Hayden]

I don't know what options are best. Mostly because that is an enormous task that requires expertise I don't have in several disciplines.

But also because the people making the decisions don't talk above an elementary level to the public about these issues, and the language of our discussions rarely ventures beyond our personal philosophies into how anyone is supposed to translate, say, a Democrat's belief in community, into legislation that meets our needs.

[pErvinalia]

They're full of shit, but they've run things for so long it's hard to see. That's why I want transparency so much.

--//--

I shocked some cashier tonight when in response to his request for charity, "it can be as little as .25 cents!" I responded that I don't believe in helping people. Yep, fuck you bud. I did help him out a bit by telling him there is a compelling progressive argument that sees charity as an excuse for his government to continue to ignore the needs of its people. I don't think my comments were welcomed by anyone in line.

Preach it sister!

[pErvinalia]

Government should not run the health service just control it but that is true of almost everything. Use the private sector dont pander to it.

Including a profit motive just makes essential services more expensive to the end user, and more incentive to shortcut services. Of course, I know you are talking about how the Netherlands does things, so this will have no effect on your Anglo-Dutch mindset.

[Rum]

It does however seem to be true that if government ‘managers’ the big institutions they tend to get hugely bureaucratic, bogged down with reporting and accountability and an arena for political games. It is true here of health and education in particular.

A balance where actual professional medics (or academics), with the right background actually run these institutions and have some sort of reporting system with government - albeit robust - would work better.

Working in senior management in education I’ve seen first hand the amount of wasted time and energy that goes just into ticking boxes for bureaucrats in London.

[pErvinalia]

In these days of neoliberal and austerity politics there's not much bureaucracy left.

[Rum]

I’m still in touch with a few people I used to work with. The staffing group I was part of is about a third the size it was due to ‘austerity’, but the requirements to report a range of ‘indicators ‘ (I.e. stats) has not changed much at all.

From what I pick up they just make the figures up when they aren’t sure. Nobody much checks it seems any more.