Ethiopian Airlines crash: Boeing faces safety questions over 737 Max 8 jets

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Scot Dutchy
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines crash: Boeing faces safety questions over 737 Max 8 jets

Post by Scot Dutchy » Sun Mar 31, 2019 7:06 pm

Sean Hayden wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:11 pm
That's not really point though is it? The point is that they require software for normal operations. Maybe that's not really relevant. I'd have to ask someone who knows though.
The problem was when you sell an aircraft as being just like previous models requiring minimum training and not being honest about the fact that it is almost a completely new model which would require a full training programme costing many thousands. This was Boeing's major selling points.
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines crash: Boeing faces safety questions over 737 Max 8 jets

Post by Clinton Huxley » Sun Mar 31, 2019 7:42 pm

If the above is the case, then I await the corporate manslaughter charges.
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines crash: Boeing faces safety questions over 737 Max 8 jets

Post by Sean Hayden » Sun Mar 31, 2019 8:24 pm

Scot Dutchy wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 7:06 pm
Sean Hayden wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:11 pm
That's not really point though is it? The point is that they require software for normal operations. Maybe that's not really relevant. I'd have to ask someone who knows though.
The problem was when you sell an aircraft as being just like previous models requiring minimum training and not being honest about the fact that it is almost a completely new model which would require a full training programme costing many thousands. This was Boeing's major selling points.
Yep, I said the same earlier in the thread. It's hard to believe nobody knew about the risks, but we hate whistleblowers, so it's less difficult to believe nobody said anything.
shut up

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Re: Ethiopian Airlines crash: Boeing faces safety questions over 737 Max 8 jets

Post by JimC » Sun Mar 31, 2019 8:31 pm

Fighter planes need to be right on the performance edge, and any resulting instability being cured via software is an acceptable trade-off given their intended use, plus ejector seats as has already been noted. Surely large passenger jets need to put inherent safety much higher on the priorities list...
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines crash: Boeing faces safety questions over 737 Max 8 jets

Post by Scot Dutchy » Sun Mar 31, 2019 8:47 pm

Sean Hayden wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 8:24 pm
Scot Dutchy wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 7:06 pm
Sean Hayden wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:11 pm
That's not really point though is it? The point is that they require software for normal operations. Maybe that's not really relevant. I'd have to ask someone who knows though.
The problem was when you sell an aircraft as being just like previous models requiring minimum training and not being honest about the fact that it is almost a completely new model which would require a full training programme costing many thousands. This was Boeing's major selling points.
Yep, I said the same earlier in the thread. It's hard to believe nobody knew about the risks, but we hate whistleblowers, so it's less difficult to believe nobody said anything.
Well when you are running the FAA as well who is going to say anything which is exactly what Boeing was/is doing and the Trump administration is not going to do anything about it.
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines crash: Boeing faces safety questions over 737 Max 8 jets

Post by Scot Dutchy » Sun Mar 31, 2019 8:50 pm

JimC wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 8:31 pm
Fighter planes need to be right on the performance edge, and any resulting instability being cured via software is an acceptable trade-off given their intended use, plus ejector seats as has already been noted. Surely large passenger jets need to put inherent safety much higher on the priorities list...
You would think so Jim but Boeing is all about profit at any price. When "safety" features are paid extras you know what time it is.
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines crash: Boeing faces safety questions over 737 Max 8 jets

Post by Sean Hayden » Sun Mar 31, 2019 8:51 pm

JimC wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 8:31 pm
Fighter planes need to be right on the performance edge, and any resulting instability being cured via software is an acceptable trade-off given their intended use, plus ejector seats as has already been noted. Surely large passenger jets need to put inherent safety much higher on the priorities list...
The point is about the need for software to operate complex aircraft, a point the article suggests is indicative of bad design.

Again, an aircraft engineer could add some clarity.
shut up

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Re: Ethiopian Airlines crash: Boeing faces safety questions over 737 Max 8 jets

Post by Scot Dutchy » Sun Mar 31, 2019 8:57 pm

Hopefully when you switch off all the computers the thing will stay in the air not like a fighter jet which to me would be the basic minimum requirement. A human being should at all times be able to fly the plane or am I being over cautious?
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines crash: Boeing faces safety questions over 737 Max 8 jets

Post by Clinton Huxley » Sun Mar 31, 2019 8:58 pm

JimC wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 8:31 pm
Fighter planes need to be right on the performance edge, and any resulting instability being cured via software is an acceptable trade-off given their intended use, plus ejector seats as has already been noted. Surely large passenger jets need to put inherent safety much higher on the priorities list...
I wonder if they're pushing the envelope re fuel efficiency and using software so the snail can walk the razor's edge?
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines crash: Boeing faces safety questions over 737 Max 8 jets

Post by Clinton Huxley » Sun Mar 31, 2019 8:59 pm

I also wonder if we are reaching the limits of human comprehension, programmatically speaking.

We no longer know what it's all doing.
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines crash: Boeing faces safety questions over 737 Max 8 jets

Post by Sean Hayden » Sun Mar 31, 2019 9:00 pm

What, are you saying this jet can't glide Scot!?

You're making things up.
shut up

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Re: Ethiopian Airlines crash: Boeing faces safety questions over 737 Max 8 jets

Post by Scot Dutchy » Sun Mar 31, 2019 9:01 pm

Clinton Huxley wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 8:58 pm
JimC wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 8:31 pm
Fighter planes need to be right on the performance edge, and any resulting instability being cured via software is an acceptable trade-off given their intended use, plus ejector seats as has already been noted. Surely large passenger jets need to put inherent safety much higher on the priorities list...
I wonder if they're pushing the envelope re fuel efficiency and using software so the snail can walk the razor's edge?
Part of the problem Clinton. I have no problems with that so long it does not compromise safety.
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines crash: Boeing faces safety questions over 737 Max 8 jets

Post by Scot Dutchy » Sun Mar 31, 2019 9:06 pm

Sean Hayden wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 9:00 pm
What, are you saying this jet can't glide Scot!?

You're making things up.
Glide? Without power they just fall as do all modern passenger planes. Planes glide into landing because of air upthrust. The Russians built a massive plane based on this principle.
No power; there is only one way down.
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines crash: Boeing faces safety questions over 737 Max 8 jets

Post by Svartalf » Sun Mar 31, 2019 9:16 pm

Clinton Huxley wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 7:42 pm
If the above is the case, then I await the corporate manslaughter charges.
manslaughter? that's criminal negligence and spuriously selling unsafe materiel. the charge should be more serious than that.
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines crash: Boeing faces safety questions over 737 Max 8 jets

Post by Clinton Huxley » Sun Mar 31, 2019 9:17 pm

Svartalf wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 9:16 pm
Clinton Huxley wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 7:42 pm
If the above is the case, then I await the corporate manslaughter charges.
manslaughter? that's criminal negligence and spuriously selling unsafe materiel. the charge should be more serious than that.
I guess it depends what is actually feasible to be brought to court.
"I grow old … I grow old …
I shall wear the bottoms of my trousers rolled"

AND MERRY XMAS TO ONE AND All!

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