Change the name of Israel

[Forty Two]

I think it should be called "Jewish State".

It has an awful lot in common with Islamic State. Including a fondness for massacring huge numbers of unarmed people.

Anyway, Jewish State is exactly what it is, so I think the name should be made to stick.

I think it is referred to as a Jewish state. I agree that no State should be a religious state or have an official religion. People have an individual right to freedom of religion, and there should be a complete and total separation of church/synagogue/temple/mosque and state. If we could get a nice global or at least regional agreement to that effect, then we could get rid of all religious states.

[Forty Two]

UN says Israel's killings at Gaza protests may amount to war crimes

UN investigators have accused Israeli soldiers of intentionally firing on civilians and said they may have committed war crimes in their lethal response to Palestinian demonstrations in Gaza.

The independent Commission of Inquiry, set up last year by the UN’s human rights council, said Israeli forces killed 189 people and shot more than 6,100 others with live ammunition near the fence that divides the two territories.

The panel said in a statement that it had found “reasonable grounds to believe that Israeli snipers shot at journalists, health workers, children and persons with disabilities, knowing they were clearly recognisable as such”...

OHCHR Statement: https://www.ohchr.org/EN/HRBodies/HRC/P ... 6&LangID=E

Well, it will nice to see the "fuller" report which is expected in May, 2019.

If Israeli soldiers shot at journalists, health workers, children and persons with disabilities, knowing they were clearly recognizable as such, and not engaged in the assaults on the Israeli positions, then that would be criminal. I look forward to seeing what the reasonable grounds are and on what specific evidence they're based.

[Forty Two]

Whataboutism isn't just for Trump supporters.

Strontium's post was clearly not 'whattaboutism." He's suggesting a bias of those countries on the human rights commission in question. That's not whattaboutism, is it?

[JimC]

Whataboutism isn't just for Trump supporters.

Strontium's post was clearly not 'whattaboutism." He's suggesting a bias of those countries on the human rights commission in question. That's not whattaboutism, is it?

I disagree. If nothing else, mention of the wrong-doing of other countries such as Saudi Arabia (which I would not argue against) in this context deflects criticism of the behaviour of the Israeli government; that is what this thread is about.

Now, if international bodies are not being critical of some countries who deserve it objectively, while consistently being critical of Israel, then they can legitimately be taken to task, but that in no way diminishes the culpability of the Israeli government.

[Rum]

‘Exceptionalism’. America has it and Israel has it - though of course Israel is in many ways an outpost of America given how much money it sucks in from there.

Personally I’m for it, as far as Israel is concerned. Not so much America these days.

[pErvinalia]

Whataboutism isn't just for Trump supporters.

Strontium's post was clearly not 'whattaboutism." He's suggesting a bias of those countries on the human rights commission in question. That's not whattaboutism, is it?

Of course it's whataboutism. Not surprising you of all people can't see it.

[Sean Hayden]

Supposedly it's the official policy of Israel. I heard that the PR firm they hired --one of them anyway-- to determine how best to influence Americans to view them positively suggested always shifting the conversation away from territory to terrorism, for example. Apparently, Americans are likely to change their minds about Israel when they find out they keep building settlements, but they will forgive even that if you say you're fighting terrorism.

Of course you have to take that with a huge grain of salt. This is another one of those issues where everybody is making all kinds of claims.

[Brian Peacock]

A company providing a Citizens Residential Air Patrol could do very well in Israel and Palestine.

[Sean Hayden]

I found it. You can download the document detailing some of the PR advice here: https://electronicintifada.net/content/ ... ublic/4540

It was put together by some Frank Luntz, an important Republican pollster I guess.

””SECURITY” sells. Security has become the key fundamental principle for all Americans. Security is the context by which you should explain Israeli need for loan guarantees and military aid, as well as why Israel can’t just give up land. The settlements are our Achilles heel, and the best response (which is still quite weak) is the need for security that this buffer creates.”

[Sean Hayden]

Achilles heel (?) --"The Rage of Achilles"

[Jason]

A "cyberpropaganda" site? Hmm...

[Sean Hayden]

Is there another kind in this debate? Their link doesn't work anyway. I'll have to find it elsewhere. It was supposedly leaked immediately.

Israeli spokesmen have their work cut out explaining how they have killed more than 1,000 Palestinians in Gaza, most of them civilians, compared with just three civilians killed in Israel by Hamas rocket and mortar fire. But on television and radio and in newspapers, Israeli government spokesmen such as Mark Regev appear slicker and less aggressive than their predecessors, who were often visibly indifferent to how many Palestinians were killed.

There is a reason for this enhancement of the PR skills of Israeli spokesmen. Going by what they say, the playbook they are using is a professional, well-researched and confidential study on how to influence the media and public opinion in America and Europe. Written by the expert Republican pollster and political strategist Dr Frank Luntz, the study was commissioned five years ago by a group called The Israel Project, with offices in the US and Israel, for use by those "who are on the front lines of fighting the media war for Israel".

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/co ... 30765.html

[Jason]

Yeah, well anyone who's thought about the inevitability of the one-state solution has thought about the Right of Return and the implications that a majority Palestinian Israel will have for the future of what they view as their nation.

[Sean Hayden]

Alright, this link is working: http://australiansforpalestine.com/2980

But as before the talk surrounding it has to be taken with a grain of salt eh?

It's similar to the issue of Israel targeting LGBTQ voters. It's hardly wrong to target any group in the hopes of convincing them you're right about something. But that is what I mostly encountered when looking into it, people that just said Israel did it, they targeted these groups. Okay, and....

Well, it's hardly wrong to develop a strategy for how best to talk about an issue either...

[Jason]

No it's not wrong to develop a strategy, but you do tend to give away your objectives when you do. Do the Jewish people of Israel want the Right of Return to be implemented in any final settlement with the Palestinians? It means that they'll be a minority in what they see as their country.

From the moves they make and don't make the current government seems to think that they do not want that. Just how popular is the current regime at home these days?