Even more problematic stuff

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Hermit
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Re: Even more problematic stuff

Post by Hermit » Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:36 pm

Forty Two wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:07 pm
Hermit wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:44 pm
Forty Two wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:44 pm
Ideas are not action.

You can have protection against the action of others, while those others still having the same right as you to express your ideas willingly.
So, abolish all hate-speech laws? I mean, what is wrong with saying: "Let's round up all Jews and gas them like the vermin they are." Or "We need to bring back the Jim Crow laws without delay. They will stop racially inferior niggers from polluting our water founts, park benches and schools." They're ideas, right, not action.
Well, yeah. We don't have them in the US. That's a good thing.

[...]

Frankly, if someone has the opinions that they think it would be a good idea to gas people, I want them to say it. If they can say it, then the rest of us know who he is. Driving such people underground just makes them fester - they band together in secret - they convince each other that the government or the orthodoxy is silencing the truth. Example - if Nazis can march down the street, then everyone can laugh at and ridicule the Nazis. If the Nazis have to fight to march down the street, or if they are barred from marching down the street, that's proof to them that the Jews really are in control, and silencing them. I prefer a world where the Nazis are open, and laughed at, and where they aren't funny, law enforcement knows where to find most of them.
Your trust in rational discourse is truly touching.

The problem with tolerating hate speech on account of the free speech principle is that by the time hate speech is translated into action it may be too late to prevent such action. There is at least one historical precedent for that. I see no problem with driving hate-mongers underground. Let them fester there on their own. Without freely available public pulpits they will remain a relatively small lot of miscreants.

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Re: Even more problematic stuff

Post by Cunt » Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:13 am

Hermit wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:44 pm
Forty Two wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:44 pm
Ideas are not action.

You can have protection against the action of others, while those others still having the same right as you to express your ideas willingly.
So, abolish all hate-speech laws? I mean, what is wrong with saying: "Let's round up all Jews and gas them like the vermin they are." Or "We need to bring back the Jim Crow laws without delay. They will stop racially inferior niggers from polluting our water founts, park benches and schools." They're ideas, right, not action.
Weren't you talking about gassing redheads?

Should you be allowed to say it? Or should we assume that, since your motives are pure, you don't really mean it?
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Re: Even more problematic stuff

Post by pErvinalia » Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:14 am

The inanity is strong in this one.
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Re: Even more problematic stuff

Post by Cunt » Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:18 am

pErvinalia wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:14 am
The inanity is strong in this one.
Who is qualified to decide what you say, and what it means?

Who is qualified to decide what you are allowed to hear or read?
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Re: Even more problematic stuff

Post by pErvinalia » Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:19 am

Me.
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Re: Even more problematic stuff

Post by laklak » Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:02 am

Is there a difference in saying "let's gas those Jew vermin" on a website and saying it in a public venue? Should saying it on Ratz be considered criminal hate speech? If not, then why not? Is there some critical mass of listeners necessary to consider it hate speech? Is there some sort of contextual clue as to whether it's hate speech or not? If it's OK to say that here, then why isn't it OK to say it on Facebook, or for that matter at a political rally?
Yeah well that's just, like, your opinion, man.

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Re: Even more problematic stuff

Post by pErvinalia » Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:05 am

If it's a public venue, then that's all that should matter, I'd think.
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Re: Even more problematic stuff

Post by Cunt » Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:07 am

The new LGBTQ community is problematic.
Trigger Warning!!!1! :
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Re: Even more problematic stuff

Post by Svartalf » Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:49 am

pErvinalia wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:48 pm
Forty Two wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:34 pm
Brian Peacock wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:29 pm
Forty Two wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:48 pm
If antifa comes to town, are they the good guys fighting the bad guys, or are they the bad guys fighting the good guys?
I guess that depends on one's ideology; on whether one thinks fascists are good guys or bad guys. :tea:
Indeed, or whether one thinks communists are bad guys or good guys ,or anarchists are bad guys or good guys, or antifa is bad or good, etc.
antifa isn't communist or anarchist. It's anti-fascist.
and while they do tend to be lefties, they often lean on the extreme edge of the spectrulm, as in, fanatics... before 1980 they would be classified as maoists.
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Re: Even more problematic stuff

Post by laklak » Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:02 am

The last Maoists I remember were Shining Path, and they were pretty far out there.
Yeah well that's just, like, your opinion, man.

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Re: Even more problematic stuff

Post by Svartalf » Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:08 am

antifa are pretty far out there, if they think that small, non properly paramilitary groups can just fight fasscist violence by more violence just directed the other way.
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Re: Even more problematic stuff

Post by laklak » Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:22 am

Ah, callow youth. Gonna change the world by burning a few cars and kicking some redneck ass. It all comes crashing down the first time they run up on a real paramilitary unit.
Yeah well that's just, like, your opinion, man.

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Re: Even more problematic stuff

Post by JimC » Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:37 am

laklak wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:02 am
Is there a difference in saying "let's gas those Jew vermin" on a website and saying it in a public venue? Should saying it on Ratz be considered criminal hate speech? If not, then why not? Is there some critical mass of listeners necessary to consider it hate speech? Is there some sort of contextual clue as to whether it's hate speech or not? If it's OK to say that here, then why isn't it OK to say it on Facebook, or for that matter at a political rally?
Clearly, if it is being said as a theoretical example within a discussion on the limits to free speech, either in mass media or on a forum, it is not hate speech. It is usually very clear as to when it is said with real intent. It becomes hate speech, and would be redacted from this forum (we've done it before, and if needed, we'll do it again)
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Re: Even more problematic stuff

Post by pErvinalia » Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:41 am

FASCISTS!!
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"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"My penis is VERY small" - Cunt.

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Re: Even more problematic stuff

Post by laklak » Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:42 am

Fuckin' nihilists, Dude.
Yeah well that's just, like, your opinion, man.

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