WTF is going in in France Svarty?

[Rum]

There seems to be a basic misunderstanding in this thread about the EU’s approach to immigration. Within the EU itself all borders are open and people from one member country are free to travel and live if they want in any other.

The overall policy for immigration into the EU from outside member states boils down to welcoming those who the economy needs at any given time.

The problem arises from the fact that the EU has so many borders and there are so many routes in from the Middle East and North Africa,. Most illegal migrants are economic ones seeking a better life. Who can blame them.

It is true to say that hardly anyone believes open uncontrolled immigration into the EU is a good thing.

[Forty Two]

except they'd try to disenfranchise a nasty, violent and already ready to explode segment of the population...
that and the yellow vests might give a real..... volatile social body... and they are already dying for an excuse to explode in riot possibly cause a political shift in favor of their far right ideals...

I"m already quite afraid of what might happen if power fell into the Le Pen witch's lap, I don't want to think what it would be like if something even more extreme rose to the top...

For a country that ensures health care, housing and a basic standard of living for all, with very equal wealth and income distributions, there sure are a lot of dissatisfied people. You'd think they'd appreciate their universal health care, "free" college, and solid employment protections. They utilize the best legal system - the continental European - non-adversarial - inquisitorial system - and they just look for truth and justice in all cases, not like the American system that has nothing but travesties of justice, guilty going free, and innocent landing in chokey.

None of this pesky first and second amendment stuff. The system is set up where majority rules and a reasonable, civilized welfare state supports the people at a reasonable level at living wages.

We just have to assume that everything we see on the news is FoxNoise bollocks. Can't be true.

[Svartalf]

I'm not blaming them, the fact is we already have too many poor, underereducated and/or unemployed people and we don't necessarily need more such, especially given the state our social security systems are already overworked and under financed...

[Forty Two]

There seems to be a basic misunderstanding in this thread about the EU’s approach to immigration. Within the EU itself all borders are open and people from one member country are free to travel and live if they want in any other.

The overall policy for immigration into the EU from outside member states boils down to welcoming those who the economy needs at any given time.

Why why... that's racist! If you want to avoid Auschwitz level of Nazism, you really need to admit anyone coming for a better life. Immigration from poor countries and unskilled labor passing illegally into your country is a net gain for your economies. That's what we paltry Merkins are told, anyway.

Jeez, it's like you have a border and rules for admission, and you expect people to follow those rules.... I didn't think any civilized country acted so horrendously.

The problem arises from the fact that the EU has so many borders and there are so many routes in from the Middle East and North Africa,. Most illegal migrants are economic ones seeking a better life. Who can blame them.

Nobody, and since you have it so good in Europe, there is no reason to deport them or deny them entry. Immigration only helps a nation grow more diverse and stronger.

It is true to say that hardly anyone believes open uncontrolled immigration into the EU is a good thing.

That's racist, isn't it? I mean, you're just excluding black and brown bodies, and stating that they have less of a right to live in a safe, healthy environment than you do. If families come, children and grandparents in tow, the only sensible thing is to admit them into the country, and let them reside (on the public dole if necessary) until their asylum or other visa claims are administered. And, since children are not to blame, anyone with children should be allowed to stay. By sending them back, you'd be condemning children to a life of squalor. That wouldn't be cricket.

[Forty Two]

I'm not blaming them, the fact is we already have too many poor, underereducated and/or unemployed people and we don't necessarily need more such, especially given the state our social security systems are already overworked and under financed...

What? How can you have poor in France? Don't you have a living wage requirement? Don't you have free or nearly free college? Universal healthcare? Egalitarian equality of wealth and income, right? Gosh, after all the shit we Merkins have taken on these issues, I find it very hard to believe that this happens there.

Oh, but I forgot - poor in Europe and poor in Merka are two different things! Like Liberal and Conservative! Middle class in Merka are the poor in Europe, so what you've got in Europe are masses of people living in 300 square meter houses, two to three cars, some discretionary income, vacation money, rioting in the streets because that level of existence is almost unthinkable to a continental European. That must be it.

[Svartalf]

except they'd try to disenfranchise a nasty, violent and already ready to explode segment of the population...
that and the yellow vests might give a real..... volatile social body... and they are already dying for an excuse to explode in riot possibly cause a political shift in favor of their far right ideals...

I"m already quite afraid of what might happen if power fell into the Le Pen witch's lap, I don't want to think what it would be like if something even more extreme rose to the top...

For a country that ensures health care, housing and a basic standard of living for all, with very equal wealth and income distributions, there sure are a lot of dissatisfied people. You'd think they'd appreciate their universal health care, "free" college, and solid employment protections. They utilize the best legal system - the continental European - non-adversarial - inquisitorial system - and they just look for truth and justice in all cases, not like the American system that has nothing but travesties of justice, guilty going free, and innocent landing in chokey.

None of this pesky first and second amendment stuff. The system is set up where majority rules and a reasonable, civilized welfare state supports the people at a reasonable level at living wages.

We just have to assume that everything we see on the news is FoxNoise bollocks. Can't be true.

fact is, there is not enough cheap, decent lodging for the people who need such,

unemployed, or disabled people have to live on ridiculously low income, I better know, I'm one of them

College may be free, but as everywhere, public college is not regarded as giving as good and education as private schools, and the college system has not managed to expand enough to satisfy all the demand put on it.


health care is always on the edge of explosion, hospitals in particular are underfinanced, lack room, lack staff, and can't sustain the mass of poor people who can't afford private medical care.

and income distribution has had growing inequalities for the last 40 or 50 years, and it's being felt and the people at the bottom end don't like it, especially given that they CANNOT live decently in a system where they can't get lodging (or worse, see the brown people get the lodging opportunities rather than real frenchfolk), don't have enough money to live on, can't get proper medical care etc etc... we're not turning into venezuela, but might be closer to it than we'd like to acknowledge...

[Svartalf]

I'm not blaming them, the fact is we already have too many poor, underereducated and/or unemployed people and we don't necessarily need more such, especially given the state our social security systems are already overworked and under financed...

What? How can you have poor in France? Don't you have a living wage requirement? Don't you have free or nearly free college? Universal healthcare? Egalitarian equality of wealth and income, right? Gosh, after all the shit we Merkins have taken on these issues, I find it very hard to believe that this happens there.

Oh, but I forgot - poor in Europe and poor in Merka are two different things! Like Liberal and Conservative! Middle class in Merka are the poor in Europe, so what you've got in Europe are masses of people living in 300 square meter houses, two to three cars, some discretionary income, vacation money, rioting in the streets because that level of existence is almost unthinkable to a continental European. That must be it.

actually, minimum wage might be able to be living wage for a single person who does not have to pay for lodging and transportation, but not for a family, or a person having to afford a rent or a car, let alone both.

and we DO have poor, you"re talking to one of them.

[Forty Two]

the moment they try to muzzle the anti immigration crowd, they'll find themselves with a bona fide revolution on their hands, not a little random rioting... actually; with the amount of muslims and other brown folk in the country, it might degenerate into civil war

Who would try to 'muzzle the anti immigration crowd'?

And why would they, in a country where people are free?

morons trying to enact goal 17 et al into law and make criticizing immigration from uncivilized places into our fair lands illegal.

and that's precisely why they shouldn't do it, people need to feel free, so the PC crowd (check my sig) might have bad ideas about restraining free speech that they'd regard hate speech.

Oh, no - they're not trying to muzzle anti-immigration speech. They're muzzling hate speech. So, you know, that's what good, civilized countries do. The whole idea of Freeeedumb is just a silly, antiquated Merkin concept anyway. The fair way is for what people are allowed to say to be put up for a vote, and majority rules. That's what makes for a free country.

[Cunt]

I'm not blaming them, the fact is we already have too many poor, underereducated and/or unemployed people and we don't necessarily need more such, especially given the state our social security systems are already overworked and under financed...

If I said something like this in public, I would surely be accused of racism.

I don't see it as being easy to talk about, which means it will be even tougher to solve.

Teasing aside, I appreciate your willingness to even talk about it. Most times, people just sing along, using words that aren't their own.

I just had a beautiful run. 13km of trail, with 4.5km of friend-running in the middle. I wish I could bottle this feeling, and ship it to you.

[Forty Two]

I'm not blaming them, the fact is we already have too many poor, underereducated and/or unemployed people and we don't necessarily need more such, especially given the state our social security systems are already overworked and under financed...

What? How can you have poor in France? Don't you have a living wage requirement? Don't you have free or nearly free college? Universal healthcare? Egalitarian equality of wealth and income, right? Gosh, after all the shit we Merkins have taken on these issues, I find it very hard to believe that this happens there.

Oh, but I forgot - poor in Europe and poor in Merka are two different things! Like Liberal and Conservative! Middle class in Merka are the poor in Europe, so what you've got in Europe are masses of people living in 300 square meter houses, two to three cars, some discretionary income, vacation money, rioting in the streets because that level of existence is almost unthinkable to a continental European. That must be it.

actually, minimum wage might be able to be living wage for a single person who does not have to pay for lodging and transportation, but not for a family, or a person having to afford a rent or a car, let alone both.

and we DO have poor, you"re talking to one of them.

Huh. well, you learn a new thing every day. Here I was told y'all have super-generous social safety nets, unlike the paltry stuff we have in the US, plus free health care, and free college, right? How can someone be poor? Just sign up for more college, get that skill you need and you're hired into a well-paying job that can't fire you just for no reason.

Wouldn't it be great if they set the minimum wage at level sufficient to support a family of four? That way, you could stay single, and live high on the hog because they'd have to pay you the minimum wage, but you don't have anyone but yourself to support! Yeah...that'd be great!

I'm shocked that France would consider it a "living wage" for a person to live without being able to afford a car. What's a living wage there? Enough to pay for a flat in a state-owned high rise with a broken elevator within walking distance from a bus stop? Equality rules!

[Svartalf]

the moment they try to muzzle the anti immigration crowd, they'll find themselves with a bona fide revolution on their hands, not a little random rioting... actually; with the amount of muslims and other brown folk in the country, it might degenerate into civil war

Who would try to 'muzzle the anti immigration crowd'?

And why would they, in a country where people are free?

morons trying to enact goal 17 et al into law and make criticizing immigration from uncivilized places into our fair lands illegal.

and that's precisely why they shouldn't do it, people need to feel free, so the PC crowd (check my sig) might have bad ideas about restraining free speech that they'd regard hate speech.

Oh, no - they're not trying to muzzle anti-immigration speech. They're muzzling hate speech. So, you know, that's what good, civilized countries do. The whole idea of Freeeedumb is just a silly, antiquated Merkin concept anyway. The fair way is for what people are allowed to say to be put up for a vote, and majority rules. That's what makes for a free country.

hatred is but one facet of freedom; hate speech ought to be as free as any other kind... we're French forl, not Quakers obsessed with a "society of Friends'... only a fool thinks that he can be friend with all the people he meets.

[Forty Two]

I just had a beautiful run. 13km of trail, with 4.5km of friend-running in the middle. I wish I could bottle this feeling, and ship it to you.

I may have pulled a muscle climbing the stairs earlier today.

[Forty Two]

hatred is but one facet of freedom; hate speech ought to be as free as any other kind... we're French forl, not Quakers obsessed with a "society of Friends'... only a fool thinks that he can be friend with all the people he meets.

Nice sentiment.

All my snarky sarcasm in the above-previous posts aside... I am saddened to see the events in France lately. I hope the issue is resolve soon, and peaceably. I think France is a great country, and my previous posts are meant in jest. As for your personal situation, may you find some help and security, and relative prosperity soon. If you need any advice I'd be glad to help. Not able to do much else from here, obviously.

[Cunt]

hatred is but one facet of freedom; hate speech ought to be as free as any other kind... we're French forl, not Quakers obsessed with a "society of Friends'... only a fool thinks that he can be friend with all the people he meets.

If one supports hate speech laws, they do not support free speech.

It is pretty tough to defend hate speech though, and that is always the way it is framed.

[Cunt]

I just had a beautiful run. 13km of trail, with 4.5km of friend-running in the middle. I wish I could bottle this feeling, and ship it to you.

I may have pulled a muscle climbing the stairs earlier today.

Fuck I wish one of you creaky old guys would take up running at my behest. I would like nothing more than to take credit for all your hard work...